Today's episode explores the new wave of "rights suppressing laws" with New York Times Op-Ed writers and legal scholars Jon Michaels and David Noll. Reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/04/opinion/texas-abortion-law.html Transcript Noah Cole [00:00:02] I'm Noah Cole. Amy Benziger [00:00:03] And I'm Amy Benziger Noah Cole [00:00:05] This is talk policy to me. [00:00:12] So these mining communities are being bullied. Just like we are. Bullied by the police. Bullied by the tabloids. Bullied by the government, and we now need to know what they need is touch and. [00:00:25] Gays and minors not exactly the first thing most people associate with Senate Bill eight, which effectively bans most abortions in Texas. As of this recording, SB eight has been passed, paused and reinstated to huge controversy. As I was reading about SB eight, I thought about a film I saw recently called Pride. Pride is the true story of lesbian and gay activists in the early 80s. They were unlikely allies and some of the largest fundraisers for the families affected by the British miners strike. These activists saw miners beaten on TV and essentially starved out by the government. They saw a common enemy. The miners ended the strike after three hundred and sixty two days. But this incredible bond was formed. Noah Cole [00:01:02] Miners marched in gay pride parades, which, as you can guess, was unheard of at the time. They fought against Section 28, a law introduced by Margaret Thatcher's government to prohibit the promotion of homosexuality. The law even banned teaching material that implied being gay was acceptable. Amy Benziger [00:01:18] So we thought about this when I read an op ed for The New York Times written by our guest today, John Michaels and David Knoll. It's called We are becoming a Nation of Vigilantes. The piece is incredible. It helped me look at SB eight, otherwise known as the Texas Heartbeat Bill, as part of a series of laws affecting vulnerable communities across the US, including marginalized voters, transgender folks and the teachers of critical race theory Noah Cole [00:01:39] in the case of SB8. Anyone can bring a lawsuit against someone who assists in an abortion before six weeks. This means doctors who perform the abortions, but it also means front desk workers at clinics and even family members that drive a sister or a daughter to get an abortion. SB8 incentivizes those lawsuits with a minimum payout of $10000. We start to see this in other areas as well. Teachers can be sued for incorporating race into their study of history. Coaches can be sued for letting transgender girls play soccer. The common thread among these laws is that they're being enforced by private lawsuits among citizens rather than through government action. Amy Benziger [00:02:16] So John and David are pushing for people to view this not only as a pro-life or pro-choice issue, but an issue of pro or anti-democracy. Noah Cole [00:02:24] It sounds like you've covered a lot of ground, Amy. The Texas abortion bill, vigilante justice and building a multiracial democracy. Amy Benziger [00:02:32] Yeah, I thought I'd pick a light topic to kick off the new season. Noah Cole [00:02:35] Let's get to it then. Amy Benziger [00:02:37] Today, we're talking your neighbor, the bounty hunter. John Michaels [00:02:48] Hi, my name is John Michaels. I teach public law classes at UCLA School of Law. David Noll [00:02:53] Hi, I'm David. No. I'm a professor of law at Rutgers Law School in Newark, New Jersey. Amy Benziger [00:02:58] Thank you both so much for being here. In your piece, you use the term right suppressing laws. You talk to these new wave of laws as no longer looking at protecting personal rights and more as protecting our right to be offended. You call them part of a campaign to make us forget what rights really are. Can you talk to how, from a legal standpoint, this can be happening? David Noll [00:03:16] The precedent that the la