Looking around and experiencing the suffering and injustice in the world can make it difficult to believe that happiness exists. But the Judeo-Christian tradition teaches that it’s sinful to succumb to despair, and we have a responsibility to ourselves and others to try and find our way through dark times. On the other hand, when you avoid suffering, you avoid meaning, and therefore, you avoid happiness, says professor and author Arthur Brooks. One of the great secrets of happiness, he says, is unhappiness. Emerging from the pandemic, spiritual and intellectual leaders may have a lot to offer us about rebuilding our lives into something better and more meaningful, and Brooks joins writer Pico Iyer for this on-stage conversation about navigating the complex waters of making healthy life choices. Drawing on the teachings of the Dalai Lama and many other religious practitioners, Brooks and Iyer wind through loss and emptiness, opportunity and purpose, and biology and psychology. Each thread brings them back to the ongoing challenge of taking control of one’s mental state and landing at a destination full of life and intention.