After a long hiatus, Dr. Matt Brodhead returns to Behavioral Observations. In this episode, we discuss the use of punishment in the context of creating effective, ethical behavioral interventions.  Of course, pursuant to the Behavior Analysis Certification Board's Ethics Code for Behavior Analysts, punishment should only be considered, "only after demonstrating that desired results have not been obtained using less intrusive means, or when it is determined by an existing intervention team that the risk of harm to the client outweighs the risk associated with the behavior-change intervention" (Code Element 2.15, page 12).  So Matt and I talked about what this means in practice, the role of coercive or aversive events in everyday life, weighing the pros and cons of treatment choices, and much more.  As we state in the first few minutes of the show, we made the editorial decision not to discuss the ABAI Task Force report on Contingent Electric Skin Shock. It's not that we don't have opinions on this topic; rest assured, we certainly do. But we felt like it would be more helpful for practitioners to hear Matt's thoughts on things like response cost, time-out, and so forth, as these are procedures that are more likely to be used by "everyday" practitioners.  We also meandered into a few other topics, like the necessity of teaching cooperation and compliance under certain stimulus conditions, the utility or role of descriptive assessments vs. analog functional analyses, as well as other digressions.  On a stylistic note, because Matt and I have gotten to know each other pretty well, this is an even more conversational episode that usual (versus one that is a series of questions and answers), with the attendant joking around that we usually engage in. If you're interested in Matt's work, go over to his website, betteraba.com, and pick up a copy of his excellent workbook, Behavioral Systems Analysis and Ethical Behavior. It's a bargain at $25 bucks... and remember, the holidays are right around the corner  Matt is also available for workshops and consultations, and you can reach him through the same website.  And while I'm plugging Matt's stuff, the popular text book he co-authored with Drs. David Cox and Shawn Quigley, is out in its second edition (disclosure: Amazon Associates Link). Other resources we discussed: Brodhead and Oteto (2022): Ethics and Ethical Problem Solving.  Thomas and Brodhead (2022): Bringing Challenge to Coercion and the Status Quo.  Matt's earlier appearances on the BOP.  Musical references: "I Love this Bar" and "Check Yo Self" Hanley et al. (2005). On the Effectiveness of and Preference for Punishment and Extinction-Based Components of Function-Based Interventions.  Hanley (2012): Functional assessment of problem behavior: dispelling myths, overcoming implementation obstacles, and developing new lore. Congenital Insensitivity to Pain. Perone (2003): The Negative Effects of Positive Reinforcement. The Importance of Red Teams, Peter Attia, MD. Michael (1975): Positive and Negative Reinforcement, a Distinction That Is No Longer Necessary; Or a Better Way to Talk about Bad Things. MacKenzie (2021): Caring by Lying.  Fisher et al. (1996): On the reinforcing effects of the content of verbal attention.  CBIT for Tic Disorders. Inside JABA #3 with Iser DeLeon on Accumulated vs. Distributed Reinforcement. This podcast is brought to you with the generous support of: Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their brand new 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Abaspeech.org - the brainchild of Session 203 guest, Rose Griffin, is giving listeners a 30% discount on all of her courses which include, The Advanced Language Learner, Help Me Find My Voice, and Start Communicating Today. The offer is valid through December 1st, 2022. Go