In our conversation we talk about embodiment, and "lunar knowledge," and the many different ways of bodily knowing. We explore the importance and challenges of ritual practice in modern culture and how "ritual is creative work and not necessarily, repetitive work." We look at what it means to have a "mythic sense" of the world. We talk about the innate genius each of us carries, and, as Michael says, "The way we respond to the crisis in our life, hopefully, is to awaken the soul further, and one of the key things found in the soul, is the natural spirit of one's life, which used to be called the genius." We explore the opposite myth to that of original sin, which is one of the original gift. "That part of the genius is a unique combination of intelligence, skills and gifts, that had never existed before, except in that person. Each tree is unique, each blossom is unique, and as I used to say, Nature only makes originals. And not, necessarily original sinners (although everyone should have a turn at that!) But, Nature only makes geniuses."