In this episode Claudia talks to musicologist Martin Ullrich about animals and music. Together they touch on the multiple ways in which music and animals intersect from how animals inspire human music, to how animals make and listen to music, and the ethics of more-than-human musical encounters. They find that the focus on animals and music destabilizes anthropocentric understandings of both culture and aesthetics. Date Recorded: 15 December 2021 Martin Ullrich studied piano in Frankfurt and Berlin as well as music theory in Berlin too. He received his PhD in musicology in 2005. His main research area is sound and music in the context of more-than-human aesthetics (nonhuman animals and music, artificial intelligence and music), with an emphasis on human-animal studies. He has presented and chaired at international conferences and has published on animal music and the relationship between animal sounds and human music. Martin was a professor for music theory at Berlin University of the Arts from 2005 to 2009 and the president of Nuremberg University of Music from 2009 to 2017. Since 2017, he has worked as a professor for interdisciplinary musicology and human-animal studies at Nuremberg University of Music. Find Martin on Facebook and Twitter (@MResearchHAS).   Featured: Human-Elephant Encounters in Music by Martin Ullrich; Animal Music: David Rothenberg, Dario Martinelli, and Martin Ullrich Exchange Their Views on the Topic Minding Animals: Studies and Research Contributions  by Jessica Ullrich;  The Critical Posthumanities; Or, Is Medianatures to Naturecultures as Zoe Is to Bios?  by Rosi Braidotti; Piano for Elephants by Paul Barton on Youtube; The War Against Animals by Dinesh Wadiwell; The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness by Peter Godfrey-Smith; How Musical are Animals by Hollis Taylor; Sound files: Woodland in Late Spring; Piano trio in C minor op.1 no.3 / Beethoven (1905) from the British Library Thank you to  A.P.P.L.E for sponsoring this podcast; the Sonic Arts Studio and SAPLab for sponsoring this season; Gordon Clarke (Instagram: @_con_sol_) for the bed music, Jeremy John for the logo, and Hannah Hunter for the Animal Highlight.