This week, Dan Allender continues a conversation with Rachael Clinton about the binds faced by many pastors and Christian leaders, who are expected to live without any complexities or flaws. Rachael is a pastor, teacher, therapeutic practitioner, and member of the Allender Center Teaching Staff. She and Dan discuss the ways in which we place our leaders on pedestals, only to feel a sense of relief when they fall off, a bind that leads us to consider the nature of hope, envy, the brokenness in our stories, and the coming fullness of the kingdom of God.