Asher goes for a deep dive in his interview with investigative journalist Nafeez Ahmed about how the novel coronavirus is rippling through the systems that make up modern society. To set the stage, they cover some heady territory, including Thomas Homer-Dixon’s “synchronous failure,” Joseph Tainter’s analysis of collapse and the diminishing marginal returns of complexity, C.S. Holling’s “adaptive cycle,” and Naomi Klein’s “shock doctrine.” With these frameworks of systems thinking in mind, they explore how we can make progress toward re-envisioning a prosocial, equitable, and environmentally sound society. For episode notes and more information, please visit our website and sign up for our newsletter.Support the show (https://www.postcarbon.org/supportcrazytown/)