Hosts Brett Johnson and Karisse Hendrick share their very different journeys to lead them both to where they are today, as two of the leading experts in online payment fraud and cybercrime. Brett shares the circumstances and choices that led to becoming a founder of the first darkweb forum to aid criminals in buying and selling credit cards (several years ago) and to eventually end up on the Secret Service's Most Wanted List. And Karisse shares some of the experiences in her career that led to working with hundreds of the largest online merchants in the world, to help them create strategies to reduce online payment fraud. Together, they talk about how they met and formed an unlikely friendship. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices