“You’ve got to meet people where they are,” says Sally Kohn. “But then you don’t have to leave them there.” Kohn, a TV commentator and columnist, appeared on Fox News representing a liberal point of view for many years—that experience alone taught her a lot about listening, bridging, and ultimately persuading. Before that, Kohn worked for more than fifteen years as a community organizer. And today she’s talking to Elise Loehnen about her incredibly helpful, surprisingly funny book The Opposite of Hate: A Field Guide to Repairing Our Humanity. It’s a conversation that taught us about listening to understand—not to argue—and about getting comfortable with discomfort. It also reminded us that we’re all way more similar than we tend to think we are. (For more, see The goop Podcast hub.)