This week, A'ndre and Ryan speak with Anja Manuel, former diplomat and advisor on emerging markets, about the rise of India and China in a conversation largely based on her critically acclaimed 2016 book, This Brave New World: India, China, and the United States. Anja contextualizes the conversation by discussing how India and China's 'glorious distant past' coupled with a more recent history of foreign exploitation has shaped each country's self-perception in the 21st century. Anja provides an updated assessment on whether an optimistic path for cooperation between the United States and China exists, and whether the U.S. is underestimating India. We then dig into the key challenges facing each country, while providing a template for how and why the U.S. might want to involve itself in issues such as income disparities, corruption, demographic shifts, climate change, and anti-democratic trends. Anja also talks China's Belt and Road Initiative and whether India has a comprehensive global economic strategy. We conclude the wide-ranging conversation with a key question: does the international order and the global rules have to be changed to accommodate India and China's rise?Anja currently serves as a principal of Rice, Hadley, Gates & Manuel LLC, a strategic consulting firm that helps US companies navigate international markets, which she co-founded with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.