Welcome to episode 123 of Activist #MMT - podcast. Today's part two of my two-part conversation with Steven Hail, discussing the new and unprecedented graduate program in economics of sustainability. The program, which starts in September 2022, will be run by Torrens University, is backed by Modern Money Lab, and is primarily developed by Steven and Australia's leading ecological economist, Phil Lawn. Last week in part one, Steven talked about how the program came to be, the resistance to be expected from neoclassical economics departments, and the basics of ecological economics. Today, he gives an overview of the program's curriculum, and the various degrees a student can pursue. I'm determined to earn a masters degree. After that then, well, we'll see. Before we begin, a minor clarification: Near the end, I say my studies with Asad Zaman might be worthy of an elective. Although integrating a course into the curriculum I think would be great (and I believe to actually much more unique than is currently available), I only mean getting a potential credit for myself, for independent study. If you like what you hear, then I hope you might consider becoming a monthly patron of Activist #MMT. Patrons have exclusive access to several full-length episodes, right now. A full list is here, each with a brief highlight. Patrons also get the opportunity to ask my academic guests questions, such as my recent episode with Warren Mosler. They also support the development of my large and growing collection of learn MMT resources. To become a patron, you can start by going to patreon.com/activistmmt. Every little bit helps a little bit, and it all adds up to a lot. Thanks. And now, let's get right back to my conversation Steven Hail. Enjoy. Audio chapters 4:13 - Torrens' curriculum, and how it overlaps with the knowledge of moderately experienced laypeople 7:05 - Subject- Fundamentals of modern money 8:18 - Subject- Foundations of 21st-century economics (Economy < society < planet) 10:18 - Subject- Advanced Macro for master's students 11:22 - Subject- International finance and MMT (International Minsky) 14:59 - Subject- Ecological economics 17:01 - Subject- Post-Keynesian microeconomics 17:40 - Subject- Data analysis, message of empirical investigation 18:25 - Subject- Professional economic writing 19:18 - Subject- Inequality, equity, and employment 19:45 - The various degrees to pursue 21:02 - The unique requirements of the doctoral program 27:16 - At what point does someone decide to continue onto the doctoral program? (Also- saving the world) 30:47 - History of economic thought in contending perspectives 31:54 - Only good maths and models. No bad math. 34:38 - Historical context for real-world economics (Asad Zaman) 43:33 - $2,200/per subject, then goodbyes 47:26 - Duplicate of introduction, but with no background music