In this episode, Xavier Bonilla has a dialogue with Hein de Haas about migration and many of the myths surrounding immigration. They discuss why immigration is a major issue globally and its connection with nationalism, distinctions between immigration, emigration, asylum seekers, and refugees, and how migration is not at an all-time high. They also talk about internal/external migration, borders, labor demand in the USA, low-skilled vs. high-skilled workers, refugee crisis, hypocrisy on the political left and right, future of migration, and many more topics. Hein de Haas is a sociologist and a geographer who has lived and worked in the Netherlands, Morocco and the United Kingdom. He is currently Professor of Sociology at the University of Amsterdam (UvA). He has a Bachelor’s in cultural anthropology and Master’s degree in social and environmental geography from the University of Amsterdam and a PhD in social sciences from the University of Nijmegen. He has worked as a researcher at the University of Amsterdam and as a researcher and lecturer at the University of Nijmegen. He was visiting scholar at Bilkent University in Ankara (Turkey) the Program of Forced Migration and Refugee Studies at the American University of Cairo (AUC Egypt). He has been part of the International Migration Institute (IMI) at the University of Oxford and played a central role in lecturing and directing the newly established MSc in Migration Studies at the  Oxford Department of International Development (ODID). He was also a fellow at the Oxford Martin School and governing body fellow at Wolfson College. He is lead author of The Age of Migration: International Population Movements in the Modern World, a seminal text book in the field of migration studies. He is the author of the new book, How Migration Really Works: The Facts About the Most Divisive Issue in Politics. Website: https://heindehaas.org/Blog: https://heindehaas.blogspot.com/Twitter: @heindehaas Get full access to Converging Dialogues at convergingdialogues.substack.com/subscribe