World Cups hinge on small things, and the deeper you go in a competition, the smaller these small things become. The further you go in the competition, the bigger these small things become, too. Take what happened at the toss between Siya Kolisi and Owen Farrell in the final in Yokohama four years ago. These strange events and their significance were picked up at the time by former Lions coach-turned SuperSport television pundit, Swys de Bruin. I this week’s podcast, I speak to De Bruin, a man who notices the small things but who also realises that the big things matter too. This is what Swys had to say about the upcoming World Cup in France. And this is what Swys had to say about Siya and Owen and the French referee, Jérôme Garcès in 2019 and why what happened at the toss before the rugby World Cup final and why they had repercussions. These repercussion could have caused England to lose the World Cup final.Get full written episodes of the show a day early on Substack.Check out The Luke Alfred Show on: Facebook YouTube