In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Mark Erikson about his work in helping others understand shipping ESM, how to deal with permutations, whether default imports are helpful, whether TypeScript has made it easier, and what Mark’s tool stack is for building. Show Notes 00:36 Welcome 01:45 Introducing Shipping ESM with Mark Erikson Mark Erikson (@acemarke) Wes Bos on Twitter: “publishing packages that work in esm and cjs is such a nightmare. I’ve run into so many issues today and took forever to get the proper package.json exports. I can’t wait until we’re 100% esm. I think I have every single combo covered.” Mark’s Dev Blog Blogged Answers: My Experience Modernizing Packages to ESM Greatest Hits: The Most Popular and Most Useful Posts I’ve Written arethetypeswrong.github.io: Tool for analyzing TypeScript types of npm packages publint 07:01 How did we get to this space in modules? 16:30 How do you deal with permutations? 22:13 Do bundlers get in the way or helping? 26:16 Are default imports useful? 30:35 Are the types wrong errors 33:41 Has TypeScript made this easier? 37:56 What’s your tool stack for building? 39:32 How do you test? 41:35 Will we ever stop bundling? 48:03 What about source maps? 52:32 Supper Club Questions What is Windows Subsystem for Linux Eagle Oceanic Next DroidSansMono NF Font 55:18 React Types has more downloads than React? 59:42 SIIIIICK ××× PIIIICKS ××× ××× SIIIIICK ××× PIIIICKS ××× Shirley Wu—Taking up space (Keynote, Outlier 2023) Shameless Plugs Replay (@replayio) Replay - The time-travel debugger from the future. Tweet us your tasty treats Scott’s Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes’ Instagram Wes’ Twitter Wes’ Facebook Scott’s Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets Wes Bos on Bluesky Scott on Bluesky Syntax on Bluesky