Ben and Cate chat with a luminary from the worlds of planning and politics - Rick Cole, formerly the city manager of Azusa, Ventura, and Santa Monica, former Mayor of Pasadena, and currently Los Angeles' Chief Deputy City Controller. He also served as the executive director for the Congress For the New Urbanism for two years and right now is running for Pasadena City Council. The breadth and depth of his experience in fiscal policy, affordalbe housing, public transportation, and how the built environment shapes peoples' lives is practically unparalleled anywhere in the country, and is particularly important in the predominantly auto-centric communities of Southern California where he has lived and worked for decades. In this conversation, Rick talks about his views on the unappreciated amounts of walkabilty in Pasadena, what the heck a City Controller does and can do, and how democracy often means listening closely to people who disagree with you. Referenced in this episode: Pasadena Now, November 29, 2022: "Former Pasadena Mayor Rick Cole is returning to City Government – in Los Angeles." Spectrum News 1, January 6, 2023: "A unique pairing in the LA city’s controller’s office." Pasadena Star-News, January 7, 2023: "We can solve our toughest problems — if we find common-sense solutions: Rick Cole." Pasadena Star-News, May 10, 2023: "Former Pasadena Mayor Rick Cole announces bid for District 2 City Council seat."