We examine the phenomena of spiritual abuse with the help of Dan Koch, researcher, therapist, and host of the podcast, You Have Permission. Both Curtis and Dan share how their own lives have been affected by spiritual abuse, and then together address questions such as, “Why can it be difficult to spot? What kind of impact does it leave? What makes spiritual abuse distinct from other kinds of abuse?” The conversation connects important theological insights - including the nature of institutional sin and redemption - with practical advice for victims, their loved ones, and current leaders of Christian organizations.   Dan Koch’s Spiritual Harm and Abuse Scale Clinical Screener   Dan’s You Have Permission Podcast   Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse: Creating Healthy Christian Cultures by Dr. Lisa Oakley   Further resources on spiritual abuse from The Allender Center at the Seattle School