David talks to Scott Sauls, an author and pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church in Nashville, Tennessee. They talk about handling the exhaustion of the current moment, whether winsomeness "works," and the challenges facing pastors in the face of relentless criticism. They also address Scott's prescient warnings about the dangers of culture war obsessions--warnings that date well before the present extreme polarization. Show Notes:-“Beautiful People Don't Just Happen” by Scott Sauls-“Jesus Outside the Lines” by Scott Sauls-Sign up for David’s French Press newsletter-Follow Curtis’ work at RedeemingBabel.org