Author and political commentator Andrew Sullivan joins Margaret Hoover for a discussion about what he calls woke "overkill" and "fanaticism" even as he continues to warn about the “crazy cult figure” of Trump. 
Sullivan says Republican Glenn Youngkin's defeat of Democrat Terry McAuliffe in the Virginia Governor's race — in which parental choice and critical race theory became flashpoints — put Democrats back “in touch with reality.” 
"I think people want race to be treated realistically, but not to define everybody, especially not in this oppressor-oppressed formula," Sullivan says. 
Sullivan weighs in on comedian Dave Chappelle's Netflix special, which has sparked criticism for his comments about the transgender community. Sullivan says he was "proud of Netflix” for standing by Chappelle. 
A self-described “small-c conservative," Sullivan also reflects on his landmark 1989 New Republic cover story, “The Case for Gay Marriage." He says the evolution of same-sex marriage from "crazy idea" to "reality" gives him ongoing "faith in liberal America" and the power of persuasion. 

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