Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 4: The Legacy of Waco | The Dangerous Art of the Documentary Podcast

Introducing: The Dangerous Art of the Documentary with Tiller Russell: Hosted by acclaimed filmmaker Tiller Russell (Night Stalker: The Hunt for a Serial Killer, Operation Odessa, The Last Narc, The Seven-Five), THE DANGEROUS ART OF THE DOCUMENTARY is a new series that reveals the wild stories behind some of the world’s most successful and iconic documentaries. Exchanging his camera for a microphone, Russell sits down with a who's-who of documentary filmmakers for riveting, in-depth conversations surrounding the intricate process of producing an engrossing documentary. In season one—debuting August 11, 2022—listeners can hear from documentarians including Allen Hughes (The Defiant Ones), James Gay-Rees (Amy, Senna), Maclain and Chapman Way (Wild Wild Country, Untold), Jaimie D’Cruz (Exit Through the Gift Shop), Joe Berlinger (Conversations with a Serial Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes), Mark Lewis (Don’t F**k With Cats) and Emmett Malloy (Biggie: I Got A Story To Tell). New episodes appear by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

2 min listen

James Marsh (Man on Wire) by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

50 min listen

Allen Hughes (The Defiant Ones): Grammy-winning filmmaker Allen Hughes rose to fame as the co-director—with his twin brother Albert—of Menace II Society and Dead Presidents, before moving on to direct blockbuster hit The Book of Eli. His latest is The Defiant Ones, a documentary series on the relationship between two very different hip-hop heavyweights. Tiller sits down with Allen to talk about the voodoo art of documentary filmmaking versus scripted movies, pushing past the naysayers, and how to successfully hide from Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

66 min listen

Maclain and Chapman Way (Wild Wild Country, Untold): Fresh off their popular sports anthology series "Untold", Emmy-winning filmmakers Maclain and Chapman Way sit with Tiller to revisit their their groundbreaking series, "Wild Wild Country", where they discuss everything from humanizing cult figures and breaking out in stress hives while editing, to the bright future of documentaries. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

62 min listen

William Friedkin (The French Connection, The Exorcist): Disclaimer: This episode is not about a documentary. But when an idol comes calling, you answer. We hope you enjoy. Legendary Hollywood film director William Friedkin sits down with Tiller for a rare interview to share stories about his Oscar-winning film “The French Connection”, including developing the script (2:30), directing Gene Hackman (16:30), never rehearsing (20:06), filming all over New York (22:45), hiring Fidel Castro’s cameraman (30:00), how it compares to “the perfect movie” (41:38), outwitting studio executives (48:50), and why winning the Academy Award was, as William put it, “the saddest day of my life” (59:02). by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

63 min listen

Emmett Malloy (Biggie: I Got A Story To Tell): Iconic music documentary director Emmett Malloy joins Tiller to share stories and secrets from the making of his latest film “Biggie: I Got a Story to Tell” about the rapper Notorious B.I.G., including how he got the job in the first place (3:00), earning the trust of Ms. Wallace, Biggie's Mom (15:20), connecting with Biggie's best friend D. Roc (27:45), working with over 100 hours of rare footage (34:10), interviewing P. Diddy (45:00), and the honor of adding to Biggie's legacy (52:15). by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

60 min listen

Jaimie D’Cruz (Exit Through the Gift Shop): Tiller talks to the multi-talented producer/director Jaimie D’Cruz about his journey from founding a hip-hop magazine to being nominated for an Oscar for the documentary “Exit Through the Gift Shop,” a brilliant collaboration with the legendary and elusive street artist Banksy. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

61 min listen

James Gay-Rees (Amy, Senna): Oscar-winning producer James Gay-Rees shares the monumental challenges he faced while crafting the archival-only masterpieces "Amy" (on the life and tragic death of Amy Winehouse) and "Senna” (about the Brazilian racing champion Ayrton Senna), as well as what it really means to be a producer. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

55 min listen

Matthew Heineman (Retrograde): Described by the Sundance Film Festival as "one of the most talented and exciting documentary filmmakers working today", auteur Oscar-nominated filmmaker Matthew Heineman - best known for his film "Cartel Land" - discusses his new film "Retrograde", in which he embeds with the American Green Berets and an Afghan General during the last months of the war in Afghanistan. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

37 min listen

Pippa Ehrlich (My Octopus Teacher): Director and Conversation Journalist Pippa Ehrlich joins Tiller to discuss her first – and Oscar winning – film “My Octopus Teacher”, which documents a year spent by filmmaker Craig Foster forging a relationship with a wild octopus in the South African kelp forest. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

48 min listen

Mark Lewis (Don’t F**k With Cats): Tiller chats with director Mark Lewis about his hit Netflix documentary "Don't F**k with Cats: Hunting an Internet Killer", the hilarious yet harrowing tale of a widespread Internet group of animal lovers who came together to capture a murderer. Their conversation touches on Mark's fascination with true crime and the power of Internet sleuths (3:30), then goes deeper into how Mark and Tiller earn the trust of their interview subjects (17:00), until finally revealing how much films change in post (32:00) and what they believe is the true essence of documentary filmmaking (57:40). by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

61 min listen

Joe Berlinger (Paradise Lost, Conversations with a Killer): Tiller sits with Oscar nominated and Emmy winning filmmaker Joe Berlinger, whose iconic career includes landmark films such as the "Paradise Lost" series, "Metallica: Some Kind of Monster", "Crime Scene", and "Conversations With a Killer." In this conversation, Berlinger describes his unconventional journey to filmmaking (4:00), then discusses the making of his 1992 masterpiece "Brother's Keeper" and why crime is such a perfect genre for documentary filmmakers (28:48), before finally breaking down how the medium of documentaries has evolved since the late 1980s (47:40). ---------------- Films discussed in this episode: Endless Summer (1966) dir. Bruce Brown. Stranger Than Paradise (1984) dir. Jim Jarmusch. The Thin Blue Line (1988) dir. Errol Morris. Brother’s Keeper (1992) dir. Joe Berlinger. Hoop Dreams (1994) dir. Steve James. Paradise Lost (1996 - 2011) dir. Joe Berlinger. Collective (2019) dir. Alexander Nanau. Con by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

67 min listen

Bing Liu (Minding the Gap): In his Academy Award nominated debut feature, filmmaker Bing Liu searches for correlations between his skateboarder friends' turbulent upbringings and the complexities of modern masculinity, while they all work to escape volatile families in their Rust Belt hometown. As they face adult responsibilities, unexpected revelations threaten their decade-long friendship. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

41 min listen

Billy Corben (Cocaine Cowboys, God Forbid): “Popcorn Doc” auteur and king of Miami Billy Corben, best known for his mainstream hit Cocaine Cowboys, joins Tiller to chat about his latest explosive film God Forbid: The Sex Scandal That Brought Down a Dynasty, which profiles former pool attendant Giancarlo Granada’s 7-year relationship with charming older woman, Becki Falwell, and her husband, the Evangelical Trump stalwart Jerry Falwell Jr., as well as the overarching influence this affair had on a presidential election. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

60 min listen

Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 1: Who in the Hell was David Koresh?: Waco: American Apocalypse is a deep dive into the Netflix documentary series, exploring topics and interviews that didn’t make the final cut. In Episode One, director Tiller Russell and reporter Lee Hancock paint a complex portrait of cult leader David Koresh – the controversial figure at the center of the story – and discuss how he convinced over 100 people (and perhaps himself) that he was a living prophet. Featuring excerpts from interviews with FBI Agent Bob Ricks, Hostage Rescue Team Sniper Chris Whitcomb, Branch Davidian Kathy Schroeder, and Heather Jones, the last child to make it out of the compound alive. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

37 min listen

Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 3: The Toll It Took: Waco: American Apocalypse is a deep dive into the Netflix documentary series, exploring topics and interviews that didn’t make the final cut. In Episode Three, Tiller speaks to Lee about the challenge of objectively reporting on Waco and the lasting trauma the story has had on her life, as well as on those included in the documentary series. Featuring excerpts from interviews with KWTX reporter John McLemore, the sole reporter who covered the ATF raid live only to have his life upended by it, and David Thibodeau, perhaps the most well-known Branch Davidian alive today. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

33 min listen

Charles Ferguson (Inside Job): The Academy Award Winner for Best Documentary in 2010, Inside Job, shows that the 2008 global financial Armageddon was no accident; it was predicted and could have been prevented. Director Charles Ferguson, with narration by Matt Damon, created a compelling, wonderfully illuminating film that provides a detailed examination of the rogue industry that led to the collapse and identifies key corrupt financial and political players. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

36 min listen

Amy Berg (Deliver Us From Evil, Phoenix Rising): Academy Award nominated filmmaker Amy Berg has built a prolific career elevating the voice of the underdog, investigating systemic abuse, and shining a light in dark places. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

49 min listen

Ramin Bahrani (2nd Chance): Narrative director Ramin Bahrani – best known for The White Tiger, Fahrenheit 451, and 99 Homes – speaks to Tiller today about his debut documentary feature entitled “2nd Chance”, a brilliantly inquisitive film about the inventor of the bullet proof vest, who shot himself in the chest 196 times . A self-made mythical figure with an allergy to accountability, Richard Davis’s hilarious yet heartbreaking story is a particularly American one, as Bahrani puts it. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

45 min listen

David Siev (Bad Axe): Midwest-born and raised, David is a first-generation Cambodian-Mexican-American filmmaker. His SXSW award-winning feature debut BAD AXE captures his closely-knit Asian American family living in rural Michigan during the pandemic as they fight to keep their local restaurant and American dream alive. With rising racial tensions, the family uses their voice and must unite as they reckon with backlash from a divided community, white supremacists, and intergenerational trauma from Cambodia's "killing fields." by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

50 min listen

Orlando von Einsiedel (Virunga, From Devil's Breath): Academy award winning director Orlando von Einsiedel sits with Tiller to discuss his film VIRUNGA, a gripping expose of the realities of life in the Congo that follows a team of brave individuals risking their lives to protect the last mountain gorillas in Virunga National Park. Tiller also asks Orlando about his latest short film FROM DEVIL'S BREATH, a dramatic look at the catastrophic wildfires in Portugal in 2017 and a revolutionary scientific discovery creating hope in the face of climate change. During their discussion, Orlando describes his film selection process (2:10), the beginning of VIRUNGA (5:20), uncovering the story of corrupt oil drillers (9:18), recruiting an undercover journalist as a spy (13:49), financing the film (18:10), joining forces with Leonardo DiCaprio (23:00), creating FROM DEVIL'S BREATH (27:40), and intercutting dual narratives to tell one powerful story (33:10). by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

44 min listen

Violet Columbus & Ben Klein (The Exiles): Ben Klein and Violet Columbus's debut feature film, "The Exiles", premiered at the 2022 Sundance Film Festival and was awarded the Grand Jury Prize for U.S. Documentary. It follows documentarian Christine Choy as she tracks down three exiled dissidents from the Tiananmen Square massacre in order to find closure on an abandoned film she began shooting in 1989. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

36 min listen

Alexander Nanau (Collective): In 2015, a fire at Bucharest’s Colectiv club leaves 27 dead and 180 injured. Soon, more burn victims begin dying in hospitals from wounds that were not life-threatening. One revelation leads to another as the journalists start to uncover vast health care fraud. When a new health minister is appointed, he offers unprecedented access to his efforts to reform the corrupt system but also to the obstacles he faces. Following journalists, whistle-blowers, burn victims, and government officials, "Collective" is an uncompromising look at the impact of investigative journalism at its best. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

46 min listen

Sebastian Junger (Restrepo): Sebastian Junger's iconic Oscar-Nominated 2010 war epic RESTREPO chronicles the deployment of a platoon of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan's Korengal Valley, widely considered one of the most dangerous postings in the U.S. military. The movie focuses on a remote 15-man outpost, "Restrepo," named after a platoon medic who was killed in action. Experiential, immersive, and raw, RESTREPO is a 90-minute deployment to a complicated, fraught warzone. Sebastian discusses with Tiller if it is an anti-war movie (1:43), his path to the Korengal Valley (5:30), the challenge of editing down months of footage (11:02), capturing emotional interviews with hardened soldiers (12:10), and incorporating footage of Platoon Medic Restrepo (16:30). by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

25 min listen

Julie Cohen (EVERY BODY | In Theaters): Julie Cohen, director of "Every Body" (now open in theaters) by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

33 min listen

Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode Two: The Man Who Could Have Stopped It All: Waco: American Apocalypse is a deep dive into the Netflix documentary series, exploring topics and interviews that didn’t make the final cut. In Episode Two, Tiller speaks with Robert Rodriguez, an undercover agent with the ATF who embedded with David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. On the day of the raid, Robert knew the Davidians were tipped off that the ATF was coming, and he tried to call the whole thing off. However, despite his warnings, the ATF went ahead with their plan, resulting in the largest gunfight on US soil in over 100 years, and Robert was pinned as the scapegoat. In a rare interview not included in the documentary series, Robert shares intimate memories with Tiller from his time working undercover before narrating the day of the raid from his perspective in grueling detail. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

31 min listen

Ondi Timoner (Last Flight Home): Acclaimed director Ondi Timoner’s latest film “Last Flight Home” by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

43 min listen

Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 4: The Legacy of Waco: Waco: American Apocalypse is a deep dive into the Netflix documentary series, exploring topics and interviews that didn’t make the final cut. In Episode Four, Tiller and Lee evaluate how the tragedy at Waco became a rallying cry for the anti-government movement within America as well as a foundation for arguments surrounding gun rights and religious freedom. Tiller also speaks with Bob Ricks, the FBI’s Assistant Special Agent in Charge, about the FBI’s failed response to Waco, rampant conspiracy theories, government distrust, Waco’s connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing a year later, and how it resonates through to the present day. by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

30 min listen

R.J. Cutler (Murf the Surf: Jewels, Jesus and Mayhem in the USA | MGM+): R.J. Cutler’s new four-part documentary series by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

50 min listen

Kathryn Ferguson (Nothing Compares | Paramount+): Kathryn Ferguson, Director of "Nothing Compares) by The Dangerous Art of the Documentary

42 min listen

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Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 4: The Legacy of Waco

Waco: American Apocalypse - Episode 4: The Legacy of Waco

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