This week, Michael invites Jorgo Chatzimarkakis, CEO of Hydrogen Europe, to debate the importance of hydrogen in powering Europe and the world towards a decarbonized economy. Hydrogen Europe is an industry association of more than 400 members that promotes the role of hydrogen in reaching carbon neutrality in Europe. Chatzimarkakis holds hydrogen to be the miracle molecule of the transition, while Michael’s Hydrogen Ladder has a far narrower view of its likely uses on the path to net zero. What follows is a comprehensive, robust – and at moments, fierce - discussion of hydrogen in the transition, covering electrolyzers, fertilizers, freight, transportation and heating, as well as following the “pots of money” behind hydrogen infrastructure and lobbying in Europe. Spark more healthy debate around net zero pathways by liking and sharing the episode, and don’t forget to subscribe. Relevant Guest & Topic Links: Learn more about Hydrogen Europe: https://hydrogeneurope.eu/ HE’s Hydrogen Act (2021) lays out a roadmap for a ‘European Hydrogen Economy’: https://hydrogeneurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021.04_HE_Hydrogen-Act_Final.pdf HE’s Clean Hydrogen Monitor (2022) provides an overview of the European hydrogen market: https://hydrogeneurope.eu/clean-hydrogen-monitor2022/ Explore Michael’s Hydrogen Ladder here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/clean-hydrogen-ladder-v40-michael-liebreich/ President von der Leyen’s speech at the European Parliament Plenary on December 15th 2022: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fi/speech_22_7727 Watch Cleaning Up Episode 111 with Dan Yergin here: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep111-daniel-yergin-the-worlds-most-influential-energy-analyst/ Watch Episode 88 with Patrick Graichen here: https://www.cleaningup.live/ep88-patrick-graichen-germanys-secretary-of-state-for-the-energiewende/ Guest Bio:Chatzimarkakis was a Member of European Parliament from 2004 until 2014 for Germany’s Free Democratic Party (FDP), serving on the Committee on Industry, Research and Energy among others. From 1999 to 2004, Chatzimarkakis was Managing Partner at Polit Data Concept, a public affair consultancy, and served as a Science Policy Officer at Germany’s Bundestag from 1995 to 1998. Chatzimarkakis holds an MA from the University of Bonn in Political Science. He has held positions as a lecturer at University Duisberg Essen and Saarland University.