Why do we avoid intimacy when we know it is the deepest need we have?
Scott Barry Kaufman is an author, psychologist, and podcast host. His latest book "Transcend" continues the work of Abraham Maslow who introduced the hierarchy of needs. Jay and Scott discuss: peak experience, 1st order and 2nd order desires, the danger of gurus, the vulnerability of intimacy, the higher grumbles, utopias, and much more.
Jay ponders the tragedy of Jonestown and also asks the listeners for a future show idea. 
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