Jon Kol and Asa Oines, cofounders of Abacus join the show to talk about the state of the art in cross chain interoperability. In this episode:  Career trajectories and why Jon and Asa decided to start Abacus  The three eras of interoperability  Asset interoperability vs app based interoperability  Why asset interoperability might just be a transitional phase  Why asset interoperability is more about the creation of derivatives than true portability  Application parallelization or duplication versus native cross chain applications  Why duplicating applications across chain is inefficient  The advantages of building natively cross chain for developers How blockchains can be made to communicate with each other Key assumptions you need to rely on to trust that Abacus will work  How Abacus is distinguished from other interoperability protocols  Why speed matters in cross chain  How Abacus differs from Layer0 and Axelar  Which blockchains Abacus is linking together  Learn more about Abacus