Eric Kaufmann, a politics professor at Birkbeck College and the author of Whiteshift: Populism, Immigration and the Future of White Majorities, and Ben Cobley, author of The Tribe: The Liberal-Left and the System of Diversity, talks to associate editor Toby Young. Kaufmann recently wrote a piece for Quillette about white privilege, arguing that non-whites discriminate in favour of whites as well as whites, so declining white populations won't necessarily end white privilege, and Ben Cobley's book was recently reviewed in Quillette by Helen Dale in which she praised him for explaining "how a frankly bonkers set of beliefs has stolen the Labour Party" and for showing "the danger of viewing people as members of fixed identity groups."