Holly Jean Buck is an expert on the social and political dimensions of environmental policies, and of strategies and technologies for preventing and adapting to climate change. Our conversation focuses on her new book, Ending Fossil Fuels: Why Net Zero Is Not Enough. Holly, Pete, and Jesse discuss why we should strive for a future of no fossil fuels, the challenges to ending fossil fuels, the role of carbon dioxide removal, whether the alternatives could be worse, how to deal with legacy firms and stranded assets, the collective action problem, and practical next steps. We also touch on the whether to shrink the global economy through degrowth, public participation and engagement, bridging technological and social change, and reasons for optimism. Holly is Assistant Professor of Environment and Sustainability at the University at Buffalo and also the author of After Geoengineering: Climate Tragedy, Repair, and Restoration and co-editor of Has It Come to This? The Promise and Peril of Geoengineering on the Brink.https://twitter.com/hollyjeanbuckhttps://arts-sciences.buffalo.edu/environment-sustainability/faculty/faculty-directory/holly-buck.html https://www.versobooks.com/books/3879-ending-fossil-fuels https://fossilfueltreaty.org/ Support the show