Some artists create because they like the process and the product. They like what they do and they’re good at it, whether they’re amateurs or professionals.But other artists create because they need to create. They have to write songs. It’s a self-actualizing and at times even a survival instinct, a primal drive. Because of this, external forces like love or relationships or world upheaval aren’t always drivers. These artists create because they must create. And at times, it may not even be enjoyable. This is what I thought about after my interview with Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson. It struck me in the metaphors they use to describe lyric writing: words like “shitting” and “puking,” images of violent expulsion that can also bring a tremendous sense of relief—and that are intertwined with instinct and drive. But there’s also genuine anxiety, and at times fear, attached to the songwriting process for both artists.