Evacuation modelling is paramount in accounting for the human aspect in our fire modelling. But how is it developing? Where are we with our tools, and where are we heading with them? What are the most profound challenges related to the evacuation modelling?To answer these questions I have invited two renowned experts on evacuation modelling.Professor Enrico Ronchi from Lund University in Sweden and Professor Ruggiero 'Rino' Lovreglio from Massey University in New Zealand. Together we try to figure out how fundamental the fundamental diagrams are, and should they be so fundamental? We discuss the emerging trends and technologies - AR and VR in research and training, smart readiness of buildings and new modes of communication. We also touch on the role of modelling and how it should evolve in the future. The episode also touches on CFD-Evacuation coupling, wildfire evacuation and informal settlements. A real action-packed episode filled with useful ideas and information.If you wish to connect with my guests, you can find them at:Enrico Ronchi: https://twitter.com/Enrico_Evachttps://www.linkedin.com/in/enrico-ronchi-74855a12/Ruggiero Lovreglio:https://twitter.com/r_lovregliohttps://www.linkedin.com/in/ruggiero-rino-lovreglio-75a61659/And the 'Evacuation Modelling' feeds:https://twitter.com/EvacuationModelSome of the research mentioned in the episode can be found here:Augmented reality for pedestrian evacuation research: Promises and limitations by Lovreglion and KinatederDissuasive exit signage for building fire evacuation by Olander et al.A pre-evacuation database for use in egress simulations by Lovreglio et al.WUI-NITY: a platform for the simulation of wildland-urban interface fire evacuationMobile-powered head-mounted displays versus cave automatic virtual environment experiments for evacuation research by Ronchi et al.