"It's not about perfection...it's about connection." - Keri Brenner This week's podcast features a dynamic duo of palliative care psychiatrists, Dr. Keri Brenner from Stanford, and Dr. Dani Chammas from UCSF. Dani was a huge hit as a guest on one of our earliest podcasts talking about "Formulations in Palliative Care." This week, Keri and Dani talk about "Therapeutic Presence," an important concept in both psychiatry and palliative care (links to articles about this concept and application at https://bit.ly/2VpXxS7. They describe 3 key ingredients of therapeutic presence, including being deeply attentive, naming (I'd call it complex naming), and creating a safe "holding space" for patients' emotions. But come on, you might say, we're in the midst of a pandemic. How can we maintain a therapeutic presence in a zoom meeting with family members you've never met, or with a patient who has a disease that could spread to you and infect not only you but your family. Keri and Dani speak to the challenge of taking on the strong emotions we're all feeling during this pandemic - anxiety, fear, and the unique vulnerability this disease places on us as health care providers. They note high rates of depression, anxiety, and other adverse mental health outcomes for healthcare workers in China who dealt with COVID. This was an awesome podcast. It was like a therapy session for our collective GeriPal souls. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. To stay up to date on relevant links, check out our new COVID page at https://www.geripal.org/p/covid.html -@AlexSmithMD