Former White House Chiefs of Staff Andy Card and John Podesta join Michael Isikoff and Daniel Klaidman on "Skullduggery." First, Isikoff and Klaidman talk about their not only career-long but life-long relationships with those who have been selected to join President-elect Joe Biden's cabinet. Then, Card and Podesta talk about their Presidential transition experiences both entering and leaving the White House, how vital they can be, and why Trump's attitude towards the election results has been damaging to our democracy. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.