Tami Simon speaks with Cynthia Bourgeault, an Episcopal priest, author, and teacher of prayer in the contemplative Christian tradition. She is the principle teacher and advisor to the Contemplative Society and the founding director of the Aspen Wisdom School. Cynthia is the author of The Wisdom Way of Knowing: Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening, and with Sounds True she has created the audio learning course Encountering the Wisdom Jesusand the audio program Singing the Psalms. In this episode, Tami and Cynthia speak about "kenosis," or self-emptying, as the center point of Jesus' message, how we can understand Jesus' life as a sacrament, and how love lives on beyond death. (53 minutes)