Staff writer Mike Giglio has been reporting on ISIS since before Americans knew what to call it. He documents his five years in the region for a new book, Shatter the Nations: ISIS and the War for the Caliphate.
He joins Isaac Dovere to discuss the abrupt changes happening in Syria. How did a phone call upend American policy towards its Kurdish allies? What’s happening on the ground now? And where will this new cycle of violence lead?
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