In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado. 3 Key Points: Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work. The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it. Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege. Support the show Patreon Leave us a review on iTunes Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community. Navigating Psychedelics Show Notes Rafael Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy Alan Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins He is a Clinical Psychologist He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances 5-MEO-DMT It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad It's a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with It isn't as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself “It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” - Alan DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other 5-MEO-DMT Harms Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful. The facilitators are the problem If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom It's a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom Oneness When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness Integration has part to do with the e