{We are very saddened to learn of the passing of Dr. Gustafson on Jul. 17, 2018. You can read his obituary in the Watertown Daily Times. We are very grateful to Dr. Gustafson for this interview.}The idea for this episode began in Einsiedeln, Switzerland, during my recent trip to Zürich. Einsiedeln is located 25 miles to the south, about 5 miles from the southern end of the lake. It's an idyllic, picturesque mountain town that is so beautiful, it's surreal.I was there to visit Dr. Robert Hinshaw – a Jungian analyst and the founder of the Daimon Verlag publishing house. We had a wonderful meeting, full of stories, in his office that looks out onto an enormous Benedictine monastery that is home to the Black Madonna.I’d first learned of the Black Madonna’s existence through Marion Woodman’s book, Addiction to Perfection. And when I told Episode 7 guest Christina Becker that I’d be visiting Zürich, she told me that I just had to go see the Black Madonna.Dr. Hinshaw sent me on my way that evening with a copy of the the book, The Black Madonna of Einsiedeln: An Ancient Image for Our Present Time. It was written by a friend of his in the United States, Dr. Fred Gustafson, who had been a fellow student at the Jung Institute in Zürich back in the 1970s. Dr. Hinshaw suggested that after I went across the street to see the Black Madonna, I might want to interview Dr. Gustafson when I got home.Fred Gustafson received a Doctor of Ministry in psychology and pastoral counseling from Andover Newton Theological School in Boston in 1968, and a Diploma in Analytical Psychology {the degree of a Jungian analyst} from the C.G. Jung Institute Zürich in 1975.Dr. Gustafson has worked full-time as a Jungian analyst and pastoral counselor, and is currently a member of the International Association for Analytical Psychology, the Association of Graduate Analytical Psychologists in Zürich, and the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago. In addition to his book on the Black Madonna, he is the author of Dancing Between Two Worlds: Jung & the Native American Soul. He also contributed the chapter, “Fathers, Sons, & the Brotherhood,” to the book Betwixt & Between: Patterns of Masculine & Feminine Initiation.Along with fellow Jungian analyst Jane Kamerling, Dr. Gustafson is the co-author of the groundbreaking book, Lifting The Veil. In it, they explore Islam and the repressed feminine principle within both Eastern and Western cultures from an historical and psychological perspective.He is also the editor of and a contributor to both The Moonlit Path: Reflections on the Dark Feminine and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin & Carl Gustav Jung: Side by Side.Dr. Gustafson and I spoke via Skype on December 14, 2015. The interview is just over one hour long and around 60 MB. You can listen to it right here in your browser or download the MP3 file to your computer. You can also listen to it via iTunes or Stitcher.



MENTIONED DURING THE INTERVIEWMyths & Symbols in Indian Art and Civilization by Heinrich Zimmer, edited by Joseph CampbellSri Ramakrishna is quoted in Heinrich Zimmer's book Philosophies of India, edited by Joseph CampbellRosebud Reservation in South DakotaOur Lady of Czestochowa in PolandOur Lady of Montserrat in Catalonia, SpainOur Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico CityPeace {The Black Madonna in San Francisco} by Beniamino Benvenuto {“Benny Bufano”}Tannhäuser im Venusberg by A.N. AmmannNorthern Exposure “Learning Curve,” Season 4, Episode 15Blog post about my visit to Einsiedeln {includes photos}