Democrats forced the federal government to shut down by saying there could be no budget deal without a deal on the Deferred Action on Childhood Arrivals program, or DACA. Republicans have refused to end the shutdown by saying there can be no DACA deal without a budget deal. There’s been a lot of finger-pointing between the two parties, and the future of young undocumented immigrants hangs in the balance. Guest: Thomas Kaplan, a New York Times reporter who covers Congress. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.