Born to Be Bad, Part II

By Timon Singh

Enemy reinforcements have arrived!

 

After surviving the nefarious schemes of his interviewees in Born To Be Bad: Talking to the greatest villains in action cinema, cinephile Timon Singh returns to track down and interview more actors behind the best part of any action movie: The Bad Guy.

 

From stars who have been in the biggest movies of all time to stuntmen who have faced off against the world's biggest action stars, Born To Be Bad Part 2 offers fascinating insight and hilarious anecdotes into what it's like to be cast as a villain in a Hollywood action film.

 

Whether the actors started off as martial arts champions, graduates of prestigious acting schools or professional body builders, everyone has a different story about how they came to be killed on-screen by some of the most famous names in show business.

 

Featuring interviews with the likes of Robert Patrick (Terminator 2: Judgement Day), Tony Todd (Candyman), Stephen Lang (Avatar), Scott Adkins (Ip Man 4), Mohammed Qissi (Kickboxer), Tzi Ma (Rapid Fire) and many others, this is an essential read for all fans of action movies!

 

Introduction by Graham Yost, the screenwriter behind action classics Speed, Broken Arrow and Hard Rain.

• Language: English
• Publisher: BearManor Media
• Release date: Jun 26, 2021
• ISBN: 9798201516314

Book preview

Ed O'Ross

"We both have our codes, Vanya.

Yours, one of the State. Mine, one of thieves."

VIKTOR ROLSTAVILI, RED HEAT (1988)

Ed O’Ross – Select Filmography

•One Down, Two To Go (1982) – Tournament Thug

•Lethal Weapon (1987) – Mendez

•The Hidden (1987) - Cliff Willis

•Full Metal Jacket (1987) – Lt. Touchdown

•Action Jackson (1988) - Stringer

•Red Heat (1988) – Viktor Rostavili

•Another 48 Hrs . (1990) – Frank Cruise

•Dick Tracy (1990) – Itchy

•Universal Soldier (1992) – Colonel Perry

DESPITE BEING KNOWN FOR PLAYING numerous Russian characters, Ed O’Ross actually hails from Pittsburgh, although his family did come to the United States from former Czechoslovakia. O’Ross’s intense performances have seen him appear in everything from blaxploitation B-movies to big budget Stanley Kubrick epics and as such, he is one of those faces that is instantly recognizable when he shows up in a film. O’Ross is still a constantly working actor and when we spoke, he’d taken a bit of a hiatus, so was able to take some time to reflect on the biggest roles of his career.

Going from amateur boxing and minor league baseball to starring in the likes of Lethal Weapon, Universal Soldier, and Dick Tracy seemed like quite the career change, so I was keen to talk to O’Ross about his shift from sports to becoming one of the big screen’s most intimidating screen presences.

What made you decide to focus on acting despite having a successful sporting career in your youth? (Ed was a former Golden Gloves Boxing champion and played as a minor league baseball player.)

Sports did play a big part in my life, but it just wasn’t enough. I found I had many other talents and interests. Acting became an intriguing challenge because of the different characters and tackling the psychology and nature of a human being.

It was something that was exciting for me to explore. It was always new and different, but always dealt with the human aspect. That fascinated me and that’s how acting became my passion.

When you first began acting in New York were you naturally drawn to darker roles or did you find these roles coming to you?

When I went to New York, my first love was theatre. I started in the Lincoln Center and City Center acting company, where I studied the classics. I was also working in a children’s theater that had introduced an innovative program for children, ranging from eight to fourteen-year-olds, who were from broken homes and families or from juvenile delinquent institutions.

The program was in three parts; first, the actors presented an idea through a fable or play. Secondly, the children were broken up in groups with two actors asking them for their ideas on the play they just saw and how it equated to their own life and experiences. The third part was the kids would act out their ideas in front of the other children. From there, I went on to Broadway and regional theater.

As to how I picked and chose roles, here’s what I know. As a young actor, you rarely get to pick and choose your roles. You audition and give the best performance possible to get the job. Producers and directors have an idea what they want, hence ‘stereotyping’.

Imagination and thinking outside the box is a big no-no for them. They will place an actor in a role that they think the actor looks the part for. Lots of times talent has very little to do with casting. There are other things that go into that decision - political favors, boyfriends, girlfriends, money, and lots of other things including the casting couch. Today, it’s all politics. Conservatives are out, liberals are in, so tell them you’re a Democrat! Try to avoid any conflicts, you’ll only lose, I know that from experience.

Some of your first roles of your career, such as Ryan’s Hope (TV 1979) or One Down, Two to Go (1982) saw you playing ‘thugs.’ Why do you think you were cast in these roles this early in your career? Were you worried about forever being pigeon-holed in these types of roles?

A young actor doesn’t think of stereotypes, you think of getting the job. My physical appearance is very intense and athletic. On the set of The Cotton Club (1984), the other actors thought I looked a lot like Clark Gable – hey, some people need glasses, what can I tell ya!

The look has a lot to do with the role as I said before it’s how the director sees it. Whenever I audition, I take a lot of time working on the character. I want a real person, not a one-dimensional character to show up. I adopt mannerisms, a walk, whatever it takes to make the character real and alive.

Things get bloody for Cliff Willis (Ed O’Ross) in The Hidden (1987). Photo courtesy of New Line Cinema.

Whether you play criminals, detectives, or army officers, you always bring a certain level of intensity to your roles. Is this something that you always bring to every character you play or is it something directors want from you and you’d prefer to have a lighter touch?

When I’m hired to do a job, that translates into total commitment. In Six Feet Under (TV 2001-2005), I played a fun-loving guy who totally threw himself into having fun; love, sex, and rock ’n’ roll. I play a killer with the intensity of a killer, because if that is what the role calls for, that’s what I give to those roles.

Out of all the great directors of my time, from Francis Ford Coppola to Stanley Kubrick, Richard Donner, Walter Hill, not one ever gave me direction. Allan Ball, the director and creator of Six Feet Under, let me rewrite my role for every episode. I won a Screen Actor Award for Outstanding Performance in an Ensemble for my work in Six Feet Under.

I don’t think any director wants to tell you how to play a role. Lots of times directors, even the best, don’t know what they want till they see it. They see their vision and how to cut the film together, that is it. It’s always up to the actor to bring the performance.

You had two memorable, but small, roles in the Joel Silver films, Lethal Weapon and Action Jackson. Can you tell me how you were cast in those films and your experiences working with the uber-action producer?

Joel loved action. He also loved to scream. He also created ultimate frisbee! He turned tossing a little disc around into an action sport! Making action movies was fun for Joel. He’s a very bright guy and an interesting guy. He’s an aficionado of architect Frank Lloyd Wright, a historical restoration advocate who runs multiple businesses. Smart guy.

On Lethal Weapon, director Richard Donner asked me if I would do him a favor and play the small role of Mendez for him and, of course, I said yes. At that time Mel Gibson was making his mark and becoming a star, so it didn’t matter to me whether the role was big or small, I just wanted to work with both Dick and Mel. Also, I got to work with Gary Busey and Mitch Ryan – that was a fun day at the O.K. Corral! (laughs)

The role of Mendez is important because it tells the audience how bad the bad guys are and that helps the story move along. You never know for sure if a film is going to be a hit but with the cast of Mel, Gary, and Danny Glover, it had a good chance to be at the least popular with audiences both here and abroad.

Walter Hill famously cast you as Russian drug dealer Viktor ‘Rosta’ Rostavilli in Red Heat and it wouldn’t be the last time you play a Russian. Is that an accent that comes naturally due to your Czech/Eastern European heritage?

That accent is ‘Fake Hollywood!’ I’m an actor, so it takes a lot of hard work and knowing the differences between the Russian and English languages. Most talented actors spend long hours of preparation on their roles in order to hone their character. We become the role.

Mendez (Ed O’Ross) discovers just how unhinged Mr. Joshua (Gary Busey) is in Lethal Weapon (1987). Photo courtesy of Warner Brothers.

However, if you do a really good job and are believable, you do run the risk of being stereotyped by Hollywood. For years, casting agents and directors thought I was a Russian actor! Shows that they really do their jobs, don’t they?

I didn’t mind resurrecting my Russian accent for a different fun-loving Russian in Six Feet Under, but it was a totally different character and as I said I was awarded a Screen Actors Guild award for my work, which I was very proud of. Not bad for a kid from Pittsburgh!

What were your experiences like making Red Heat with an up-and-coming Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Arnold wasn’t up and coming by that point, he was well known and bankable from his other films and the bodybuilding world. Arnold is a celebrity and a very smart and clever man - after all, he was Governor of California.

He’s very methodical and systematic and approaches his work the same way. You get what you see when working with him as an actor. Arnold is also a very complex man and never to be underestimated. He is very strong-willed, and you have to admire him for that.

O’Ross vs. Schwarzenegger in Red Heat (1988). Photo courtesy of Carolco Pictures.

Walter Hill obviously enjoyed working with you because he re-cast you in Another 48 Hours (1990). What is he like to work with as a director and how were your experiences on that film?

Walter Hill is a great guy. He didn’t talk much, but then, every director I worked with, even Stanley Kubrick, didn’t talk much about the character or give me direction. I had too much respect for them and tried very hard to make their job easier, so my job would be easier and I’d stay out of their way.

I knew I was prepared as an actor and had my character down, so if Walter did want to say something or give me direction, I would be able to do it without causing any problems as that would cost him time.

Like so many of the actors in Dick Tracy, you are (almost) unrecognizable under all that make-up. What are your memories of making that film with its star-studded cast, such as Warren Beatty, Al Pacino, and Madonna?

Warren [Beatty] studied with Stella Adler and years later I studied with Stella when I lived in New York, so we were on the same wavelength as far as how to approach the work.

Madonna was a sweet girl when she wasn’t guarding herself. She did have a good voice and an ability to sell a song. Also, for the film, Gwen Verdon taught me to waltz, how great is that, huh?

Almost unrecognizable under the make-up, Ed O’Ross as Itchy (second from the left) in Dick Tracy (1990). Photo courtesy of Touchstone Pictures.

Al Pacino and I got along well. We’d play chess and drink cappuccinos when we had a break, but our make-up really was extensive, but it came with the territory. I look back on that film and realize that between The Cotton Club and Dick Tracy, I was privileged to work with three generations of truly great artists.

I went to Rye, New York, to research Dick Tracy for my character, Itchy. Chester Gould gave me a drawing of Itchy with the original colors he used to color the character in the newspaper’s comic strips. It was so cool. Unbelievable. I gave a lot of my research to [Warren], who in turn hired the best art director, Gregory Bolton, and production designer, Richard Sybert, who I worked with on The Cotton Club, and a tremendous cinematographer Stephen Goldblatt.

On Tracy, Warren also got Vittorio Storaro as a cinematographer, so I had two really good friends on that set and a number of good people. I was friendly with Fred Gwynne, Bob Hoskins, and Jim Remar. I was really fond of Diane Lane - what a sweet gal! I didn’t know her well. But we were friendly. [Richard] Gere was a nice guy, went off the rails, but great memories.

Colonel Perry (Ed O’Ross) is forever confident in his control of the UniSols in Universal Soldier (1992). There’s no way anything will ever go wrong. Photo courtesy of StudioCanal.

Another stalwart of the 1990s that I always associated you with is Universal Soldier, where you were cast as the villainous Colonel Perry. Was that a set teeming with testosterone as both Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren were at the zenith of their fame?

Universal Soldier was a fun shoot. I knew Dean Delvin who was just coming up as a producer. His partner Roland Emmerich was also his mentor. Jean-Claude was really in shape then and man, he was so flexible.

He could do splits and stretch himself in all kinds of positions. I didn’t find out until later that he was a ballet dancer before he got into the martial arts and acting. He was a wild guy, but lots of fun. Dolph Lundgren on the other hand stayed pretty much with his handlers, so I didn’t associate much with him. That’s how it goes on sets sometimes. You miss out on meeting your fellow actors.

At that point in your career, were you fed up being cast as villains or was it something you embraced? Did you find yourself pigeonholed by the industry or was it a case of accepting any job that came along like many actors?

I never accepted any job or role I didn’t like. I never went for the money, so call me stupid. I knew that I would create a bad situation and that’s not worth risking your reputation over.

‘If you don’t feel comfortable, don’t do it’ – that was my motto. I worked and did some truly awful work on some low budget pictures that I did while trying to help people that I liked. It never worked out well, so I just stopped it and now I will only work with people who are serious about making films.

It’s tough to make a film let alone a good film. If the occasion rises and the role is good or I can learn how to do other parts of the business and not embarrass myself or burden others, I’ll take a shot at it.

Finally, we can’t talk and not discuss your experiences with Stanley Kubrick on Full Metal Jacket as Lt. Touchdown. What do you remember about that infamous shoot?

Relaxing on-set of Full Metal Jacket as Lt. Touchdown. Photo courtesy of Warner Brothers.

Full Metal Jacket was an incredible learning experience. Stanley and I got along well. I got along with his researcher and friend Tony Frewin, who I am still in touch with. Again, no direction. Just, ‘Do you guys know your lines?’ which really scares the hell out of you!

Kubrick had us rehearsing in his trailer for about an hour. I said, ‘Look Stanley, I’m sorry but if this keeps up we WILL blow our lines.’

It was the big scene where I walk down the road and choppers are flying, troops are moving in and it cost something like a million pounds and we got it in one take! That’s amazing if you knew how many takes Stanley would do if he didn’t get what he wanted, and this was not the scene to mess up!

Stanley asked me to pick a name for my character, who graduated from Notre Dame. I knew Notre Dame was a Catholic college and just calling him ‘Lieutenant Touchdown’ wasn’t going to work for Stanley, so I picked my uncle’s name, Walter J. Shanoski.

Do bad guys have more fun?

Yeah, I guess playing bad, you do have more fun. One thing for sure, the crew usually wants to take you out to the strip joints, but I never liked window shopping.

The roles are fun because you can do things you would never be able to [do] in real life. I always looked for the good in a bad guy and the bad in the good guy. That way I felt the character had more depth and dimension and is more of a real person.

Tommy Tiny Lister

You don’t want to die, but you don’t know how to take a life. Give it to me; these men would kill you, and take it anyway. Give it to me. You can tell ‘em I took it by force. Give it to me, and I’ll do what you shoulda done ten minutes ago.

TATTOOED PRISONER, THE DARK KNIGHT (2008)

Tommy ‘Tiny’ Lister – Select Filmography

•Runaway (1985) - Jackson

•Blue City (1986) – Tiny

•Armed and Dangerous (1986) - Bruno

•Beverly Hills Cop II (1987) - Orvis

•Extreme Prejudice (1987) - Monday

•No Holds Barred (1989) - Zeus

•Universal Soldier (1992) - GR55

•The Meteor Man (1994) - Digit

•Men of War (1994) - Blades

•F riday (1995) - Deebo

•The Fifth Element (1997) - President Lindberg

•Jackie Brown (1997) - Winston

•The Dark Knight (2008) - Tattooed Prisoner

•Zootopia (2016) - Finnick

There is an old military saying that states ‘no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.’ In the same fashion, no interview plan can ever contend with Tommy ‘Tiny’ Lister. Like his on-screen presence, the man is a force of nature and when he wants to talk about something, you have no choice but to listen.

Tommy Lister intimidates the guards, fellow prisoners, and the audience in The Dark Knight (2008). Photo courtesy of Warner Brothers.

The former wrestler has had an eclectic career appearing in big budget blockbusters, Disney animated movies, indie comedies, and DTV dross, but whatever he’s in, your eyes can’t help but be drawn to his 300lb, 6’5" frame, and his milky right eye, in which he has been blind from birth due to a detached, deformed retina.

Despite working with some of the biggest names in the industry (and he will tell you about them!), it was clear from talking to Lister that he makes his money these days from trading on his WWE glory days and the social impact of his character Deebo from the 1995 stoner comedy Friday. He is constantly talking about the impact Deebo has had on the wider world and his excitement about a potential third Friday film was palpable, but with his recent legal and financial woes, it was clear that despite making four to five films a year, the days of his popular wrestling alter ego Zeus are long gone and opportunities to appear in big budget fare like The Fifth Element and The Dark Knight are few and far between.

Despite that, Lister was incredibly enthusiastic talking about his love of rap music and how it has the power to change the world, his faith, how he is always looking for new marketing opportunities and how, despite Hollywood trying its best, you just can’t put Tiny Lister in a box. This interviewer could barely keep him on topic…

You began your career in athletics and in the United States Football League, but from what I understand films were always your real passion. Who were the actors that you looked up to growing up?

For me, Woody Strode was the first Black champion in Hollywood. I was also a big Marlon Brando fan and was lucky enough to work with him in Don Juan DeMarco (1994), as well as Johnny Depp and Faye Dunaway.

I was a national shot-put champion in track and field, and I was a bouncer at nightclubs, but I was always a film buff. I love movies. I’m a big fan of everyone from John Wayne to James Stewart to Eddie Murphy to Woody Strode, so to be doing what I’m doing, in the most collective business in the world, is amazing.

What makes it special for me, is also the rappers. I grew up in Compton, and I’m part of the hip-hop community simply because of the movie Friday. I also appeared in I Got the Hook Up (1998) with Master P, so it’s hard to keep me out of Hollywood! LL Cool J, Will Smith, they were some of the biggest stars in Hollywood, so I saw my power come from that. I also tell people that I’m a man of God. I love Jesus Christ. Romans 8:28 – ‘All things work together for good to those who love The Lord.’

Lister gets the guns out in Armed and Dangerous alongside Eugene Levy (left) and John Candy (right). Photo courtesy of Columbia Pictures.

Also, look at the directors I work with. Chris Nolan, John Singleton, Luc Besson, Quentin Tarantino, F. Gary Gray. Those cats do what they want to do. I’ve worked with the biggest directors in the world because they are different. They shoot all over the world and I’ve been able to work in London and with people like Billy Connolly [as a result]. I love London. That city is the reason I drink tea!

When you started out in your career, you started playing bouncers in films like Armed and Dangerous…

One of my favorite movies. I love John Landis!

Did you feel that your size affected the roles that you were offered, such as those of henchmen and bodyguards? Were you happy to play those roles or did you want to do something different?

I was just happy to be working. I had to audition for those roles, but today, I don’t have to. You either hire me or you don’t. I only audition for big films, those $150-200 million blockbusters. If it’s something that doesn’t make sense, I don’t do it, but I can honestly say that working with John Candy in Armed and Dangerous was one of the best times I’ve ever had living on Earth! In that film, they signed me for two weeks and him, me, and Eugene [Levy] improvised that whole scene.

Working with Canadians has always been good for me as I got to work with Mike Myers [Austin Powers in Goldmember] and he was very nice to me. So, working with him, John [Candy] and Eugene [Levy] was wonderful.

Were there any actors that helped influence the decisions you’ve made during your career?

Michael Clarke Duncan. He was an actor that would make [the audience] feel everything. We often talked about working together on projects. I once told him that he should play a bad guy opposite [me] in a TV show, but he always said that he would want me to play his brother so that I’d be on the show every week instead of one episode. I’ve never had anybody look out for me like that. I’ve been blessed, man. I’m just a Black dude from Compton trying to get by. I never went to Julliard like Tupac Shakur… but I got to work with him. He was a method actor, man. Standing next to him I looked like King Kong!

Speaking of other great actors, I was in One Night with the King (2006) and got to work with Peter O’Toole, Omar Sharif, John Rhys Davies, and John Noble, [which was] incredible. I’ve been so lucky. John Singleton told me at Michael Jackson’s funeral that Black people really respond to me because I became an iconic character in the world because of Friday, and let’s look at the directors I’ve worked with because of that. Let’s list them again! John Singleton! F Gary Gray! Walter Hill! Roland Emmerich! Christopher Nolan! Quentin Tarantino! Samuel L. Jackson once checked me when we worked with John Frankenheimer saying, ‘Don’t you know you’re working with a man who worked with Burt Lancaster!’ So, when people look at me, they really miss how big my stuff is. How many actors can say they worked with the likes of Marlon Brando, Omar Sharif, Johnny Depp, Morgan Freeman, Christian Bale, and Dustin Hoffman? Who? I’m blown away that I’ve worked with all of them. Not forgetting Samuel L. Jackson, who is amazing.

Lister in his iconic role of Deebo in Friday (1995). Photo courtesy of New Line Cinema.

Is it fair to say that playing Deebo in Friday changed your life forever? How did that come about?

Well, at the time I was already known as the number one Black heavy in Hollywood, following in the steps of Woody Strode, but I was already known in wrestling circles. I’d appeared in the World Wrestling Federation (WWF) and the World Championship Wrestling (WCW). F. Gary Grey once told me that he cheated by casting me as Deebo in Friday, because a lot of people already knew me. We’d never worked together, but he’d seen me in the great Walter Hill film Trespass (1992), where I starred alongside the great Bill Paxton. I’ve been working a long time, man, so I’ve seen lots of greats leave us.

The industry also moves pretty quick. If you’re not a part of it, you can get shut out. I mean, I was in Zootopia (2016), the biggest movie in the world, and I still have problems sometimes, but because of