Profiles in Enterprise: Inspiring Stories of Indian Business Leaders

By Peter Church

Profiles in Enterprise, an inspirational book on the life stories of twenty-three Indian business leaders is a candid account of men and women who have added value to their businesses or professions and most certainly to India as a nation. From the importance of hard work to perfect timing, and from sharing wealth to the grit and determination to never give in; these profiles share stories of entrepreneurs, ever ready to take risks and on a path to a never-ending success.

Enlightening, and full of fascinating anecdotes, these personal journeys are a must read for a growing breed of first-generation entrepreneurs.

• Language: English
• Publisher: Roli Books
• Release date: Jan 26, 2015
• ISBN: 9789351940678

Peter Church

Peter Church is a South African fiction novelist renowned for the dark and racy nature of his writing. His debut novel, Dark Video, was published by Random House in South Africa and Australia in 2008, and delved into a sordid world of online video sharing. The was followed up in 2011 with Bitter Pill, a thriller dealing with the scourge of drink spiking on the local club scene. Bitter Pill was long listed for the Sunday Times Fiction Prize in the same year. Church lives in Cape Town with his wife, the artist Paula Church, and three children. He is a member of SA’s PEN association of writers and his short stories have been published in a number of local anthologies. His latest novel, Crackerjack, is due for release in January 2019 and will be his North American debut.

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Peter Church OAM, B.Com (UNSW), LLB (Sydney), LLM (London) is a lawyer and corporate adviser by profession and has spent more than 30 years living and working in the South East Asian and Indian regions. He was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia (OAM) in 1994 for his services to the promotion of business relations between Australia and the South East Asian region. He has written a number of other books on the Asian region, including Added Value – The Life Stories of Leading South East Asian Business People (Murmeli, 1999), A Short History of South East Asia (John Wiley, 2009) and Added Value – The Life Stories of Indian Business Leaders (Roli, 2010).

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For Ginny and for my evergrowing brood of grandchildren –

Daisy, Polly, Harry, Fox, Lily, Charlie Rose, Chance and Harvey

CONTENTS

Acknowledgements

Introduction

Radhe Shyam Agarwal – Emami

Subroto Bagchi – Mindtree

Professor Bala V. Balachandran – Great Lakes Institute of Management

Shobhana Bhartia – HT Media

Ela Bhatt – Sewa

Ajay Bijli – PVR

Anand Burman – Dabur

Ramesh Chauhan – Bisleri

Adi Godrej – Godrej Group

Sanjiv Goenka – RP-Sanjiv Goenka Group

Bhavarlal H. Jain – Jain Irrigation Systems

B.K. Jhawar – Usha Martin

Naveen Jindal – Jindal Steel & Power

B.M. Khaitan – Williamson Magor

Sanjay Lalbhai – Arvind

Keshub Mahindra – Mahindra & Mahindra

Sunita Narain – Centre for Science & the Environment

Sanjay Nayak – Tejas Networks

Harshavardhan Neotia – Ambuja Neotia Group

Ajay Piramal – Piramal Group

Ronnie Screwvala – UTV / Disney India/Unilazer

Venu Srinivasan – TVS Motor Company

Arunachalam Vellayan – Murugappa Group

Endnotes to each chapter provides a brief description of the subject’s business or organization.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

In any project such as this, the first and most important contribution is obviously made by the interviewees themselves and, as we all know, their extremely important secretaries and assistants, without whom there would be no book. I found all the subjects to be easy to interview and generous with their time.

It would also be remiss of me not to acknowledge and thank for the assistance given to me by many other people who helped me shortlist those to be interviewed. Amongst these were my colleagues Shiban Bakshi, John Bond and Suresh Iyer.

As you would no doubt understand interviewing the fascinating people covered in this book is the easy part. The more arduous task is converting what they told me into the chapters of this book. In this regard I would like to particularly thank my brother-in-law, Antony Nash who helped me with the initial drafts.

I would also like to thank Lena Law, my assistant at Stephenson Harwood who had no idea when we started working together that this project was underway, and no doubt might have thought twice about agreeing to work with me had she known!

Finally, I would like to thank Pramod, Kapil and Priya Kapoor and Neelam Narula of Roli Books for taking on the challenge and publishing, not just this book but also my previous book on life stories of Indian business leaders. I am thankful for their expert advice and assistance along the way.

The life stories in this book are the result of my interviews with the subjects over a three-year period, so they might not be completely up to date as at the date of publication in December 2014. These are their stories and each of them approved the text for his or her chapter. If any mistakes remain, then the responsibility rests with me.

INTRODUCTION

This is my second book featuring the life stories of Indian business leaders. ¹ I knew that in a country of over one billion citizens, I had barely scratched the surface with my first book and, as I found each of the subjects’ stories fascinating, I was interested and encouraged by others to write a follow up.

As with the first volume, this is not a book about wealth but certainly many of those interviewed are wealthy. It is more about the lives of leading Indian businessmen and women who have added value to their businesses or professions and, in many cases, to India as a nation. The book also focuses on their thoughts on success and its ingredients.

Through my involvement with the countries of Asia over the last 40 years, first as a student, then as a lawyer and corporate adviser, I have met and observed a number of the ‘movers and shakers’ in the region. Usually, when I read about them in the press or hear others talk of them, what is reported is how much money they have, what huge deals they have cracked, or the wonderful lives they lead. There seems little interest in their life stories which, for me, are far more interesting than speculating about how many dollars they have in their bank accounts. How did they do it? Was it luck? Was it just hard work? Or are there a number of factors or threads which could guide others to success?

In 1999 I wrote a book² on the life stories of some 65 leading South-East Asian businessmen and women from the ten countries making up the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN). The book answered many of these questions, and, the most important ingredient to success so far as I could ascertain was timing. There seems to be a time to get into businesses, a time to grow businesses, and a time to get out of businesses. For a number of older people interviewed, the right time came in the years following the Second World War and as their nations gained independence.

Not surprisingly there are many similarities but, as you will read, the history and culture of India is different in many respects from the countries of South-East Asia. Certainly India, like all the countries of South-East Asia, with the exception of Thailand, was colonized by a Western power but India created some amazing twists and turns for many of those interviewed for this book.

What looms largest in the stories of many of these men and women is the long dark shadow cast by the ‘licence raj’ when one almost needed a licence to breathe. Even large industrialists suffered. How individual men and women prospered in that period is almost beyond belief. For those who did, I think the personal characteristic that shines through most is their grit and determination to never give in.

And again, as in South-East Asia, timing shines through as a key ingredient in the success of many of those covered in this book. They were in the right place at the right time when the ‘licence raj’ drew its last breath. But, of course, their success is far more complicated than this.

Apart from external factors like timing, what then are the characteristics one expects to find in successful entrepreneurs? Many psychologists have spent their careers trying to identify these. The precise definition of exactly what the word ‘entrepreneur’ means seems to be the subject of some debate and the definition I most enjoy is the one of Peter Kilby in his classic essay ‘Hunting the Heffalump’.³ He likened the search for an entrepreneur to be like hunting the Heffalump, a character from A.A. Milne’s ‘Winnie the Pooh’ that, in Kilby’s words ‘...is a rather large and very important animal. He has been hunted by many individuals using various ingenious trapping devices, but no one so far has succeeded in capturing him. All who claim to have caught sight of him report that he is enormous, but they disagree on his particulars.’⁴

Fortunately, many psychologists such as Reg Jennings, Charles Cox, and Cary L. Cooper⁵ do agree on several key ‘particulars. As you read the life stories in this book, I suggest you bear in mind the characteristics they identified from their research. Although their study was of Western entrepreneurs, I think you will be surprised to see how many of the following apply to the Indian subjects in this book:

Assertiveness – the grit and determination I mentioned above, not surprisingly, tops the list and I think is exhibited by every person in this book;

The Learning Curve – the ability to learn from setbacks or failures;

Ambition – being highly proactive and responsive to challenge;

Achievement Orientation – the need and belief to succeed;

‘The Internal Gyroscope’ – a clear and positive view of where they are going;

An Integrated Value System – clear values with one of the most important being dependability.Wealth and power rank lower in importance for most entrepreneurs than people and relationships;

Effective management of risk – most take much bigger, and sometimes all or nothing, risks earlier in their careers which become more calculated later in their careers;

Goals: ‘Do-able’ lists versus ‘wish-lists’ – most entrepreneurs seem to focus on realistic goals rather than absolute fantasy;

High dedication – in terms of effort and time put in – every person in this book exhibits this characteristic;

Intrinsic Motivation – most love what they do and have high energy levels in pursuing their chosen field;

Well-organized Lifestyle – most have the unshakeable support of a spouse and apparently ‘entrepreneurial duos’ are not that unusual;

Pragmatic Approach – most entrepreneurs have a pragmatic approach to life rather than an intellectual approach;

Sound Analytic and Problem-Solving Skills – and don’t these have to be applied to succeed in India!

High Level of ‘People Skills’ – to achieve their objectives entrepreneurs usually need the assistance of others. Most seem to operate an ‘open and consultative’ style but with strong authoritarian back-up;

High Level of Innovation – entrepreneurs are more at ease creating new ways of doing things rather than just adapting existing models;

Parental Influence – interestingly most independent entrepreneurs have mothers who played a dominant role in their early childhood and career path. Few apparently reported poor relationships with their fathers;

Social Origins – socio-economic background affects development and behaviour. In India it is well known that certain ethnic groups such as the Marwari produce a high percentage of entrepreneurs. It is also interesting to note that in the research done by Jennings, Cox and Cooper, they found elite independent entrepreneurs mostly had working-class origins and did not have entrepreneurial parents. Given India’s caste system I am not sure if India would bear this out;

Education – regardless of the education received the research indicates that successful entrepreneurs usually see any misfortune they may have had in not receiving a good education as just another hurdle to overcome in achieving their goals;

Career Development Patterns – nearly all entrepreneurs have had to cope with failure of some sort and most see it as a positive to learn from one’s mistakes and failures. Most exhibit extreme resilience and the ability to bounce back;

Work History – most entrepreneurs did not spend very long as employees before taking the plunge in creating their own businesses;

Philanthropy and Pro-social Behaviour – the research suggests altruism stems from parents and religious teachings of moral obligations and a strong work ethic, combined with internalized norms of behaviour and the concern for others’ needs;

Marginalization – Many entrepreneurs come from socially marginalized groups.

There are also some unique aspects of Indian life which have touched many of the lives in this book. The most prevalent of these is the concept of a ‘joint family’. Whilst Indian readers of this book will all too well understand exactly what this concept means, it may be helpful for others to have some explanation. Essentially a joint family is an extended family arrangement; particularly prevalent amongst Hindus and under which several generations will live under the same roof. All the male members are blood relatives and all the women are either mothers, wives, unmarried daughters, or widowed relatives, all bound by the common sapinda⁶ relationship. The family is headed by a patriarch, usually the oldest male, who makes decisions on economic and social matters on behalf of the entire family. The patriarch’s wife generally exerts control over the kitchen, child rearing and minor religious practices. A daughter cannot remain the member of her father’s family after her marriage and the sisters, though they were once entitled to a share in the property, would lose their right and would be entitled to only maintenance until their marriage and their marriage expenses.

Six key aspects of joint family are:

all members live under one roof;

share the same kitchen;

three generations living together (though often two or more brothers live together, or father and son live together or all the descendants of male live together);

income and expenditure in a common pool – property held together;

a common place of worship; and

all decisions are made by the male head of the family.

The most critical element of the joint family from the point of view of an entrepreneur is that all money goes to the common pool and all property is held jointly. As you will see in many of the life stories in this book, it is this element that often leads to the break-up of the joint family. The common pool concept probably worked well in more traditional times and may still work well where the members of the family have few opportunities and little wealth. But in the India of today, and particularly urban society, one can see the enormous pressures this must bring. What if one member is lazy or incompetent? What if one member wishes to take risks and others don’t? What if the patriarch lacks the skill and experience to manage the businesses? As you will see, different entrepreneurs have handled it differently but there is no doubt that the entrepreneur only starts to ‘fly’ once he is on his own. What some families have done is to learn from successful European and US families that have not only survived, but prospered, over many generations through means of structures such as family constitutions. What is particularly interesting is that a number of these new Indian family constitutions treat men and women equally; something one would not typically have seen only ten years ago.

Inextricably tied up with joint families and the lives of many of the subjects of this book is how they ‘handle’ the next generation coming into the business they have built or inherited. Most of the entrepreneurs seem to be following the European and US concept of ‘family offices’ where the businesses are run by professionals and the family office acts more like a holding company.

There is one element not mentioned above which the psychologists I have read do not seem to touch on with respect to whether an entrepreneur succeeds or not. This is the concept of ‘luck’. Perhaps there is no such thing as ‘luck’ or, as one hears from time to time, that people make their own destiny. But most of the entrepreneurs covered in this and my earlier book on Southeast Asia admit there is an ethereal element that defies description and could be called ‘luck’ for want of a better word. Timing could well be a part of luck but the entrepreneur still needs to seize the opportunity which he has identified.

I should mention how the businessmen and women were chosen. First, I sought guidance from my Indian friends and from Australia’s and India’s diplomatic and trade missions in asking them to provide me with a list of 20 names of Indian entrepreneurs who succeeded in the chosen profession or business and who have the respect of their peers and the wider community. In reviewing these lists it was surprising how many names appeared multiple times. I then set about approaching my short list and this book is the result. Some I approached declined to be interviewed, but they were very few.

I conducted all the interviews face-to-face. Many of my friends and colleagues who knew I was writing this book asked whether I had ‘grilled’ a particular person on some event or rumour about their lives. I always replied that this book was not meant to be investigative journalism. Indeed, I sent a draft of my interview to each person for approval and, in most cases, only minor changes were made to correct mistakes in names or dates.

Some readers familiar with the lives of particular individuals may observe what they believe to be inaccuracies in the stories. Any such inaccuracies would be irrelevant to my overall objective of seeking common threads in the stories of their successful business and professional careers.

The relevance or importance of chasing wealth was something else which interested me and I was pleased to find that, for most, the key was doing something they liked and doing it well. The wealth followed. Most seemed to think that if one just chased money, then other important elements of success, such as ethics, tend to go out of the window. If one loses one’s way ethically, then the general opinion is that, while a short term gain may be enjoyed, one could easily lose one’s name and reputation and that would impact the rest of one’s life.

For me one of the most interesting things to come out of the various meetings and which should spur many young people from around the world is that not all of the people were brilliant academically. Certainly many are, but quite a number were not and were quite relaxed to say so. And by no means were all the subjects compliant and well behaved in their childhood.

All in all, I hope this book enables Indian and foreign readers, both young and old, to understand what makes these successful entrepreneurs ‘tick’ and to understand a little better the challenges they have had to overcome to achieve that success. In doing so, I hope in particular younger readers who are budding entrepreneurs will realize that all is not lost if they do not stand first in school and university, but also clearly understand that the path of an entrepreneur is difficult, full of risk and rarely one of never-ending success.

1 Peter Church, Added Value – The Life Stories of Indian Business Leaders, Roli Books, 2010.

2  Peter Church, Added Value – The Life Stories of Leading South East Asian Business People, Sydney, Murmeli, 1999.

3  P.M. Kilby, Entrepreneurship and Economic Development, New York: Macmillan (1971).

4  I wonder if this revelation could lead to some new nicknames of the entrepreneurs covered in this book by their children and grandchildren

5  R. Jennings, C. Cox and C.L. Cooper, Business Elites: The Psychology of Entrepreneurs and Intrapraneurs, London: Routledge (1994).

6  Sapinda relationship with reference to any person exists as far as the third generation (inclusive) in the line of ascent through mother, and the fifth (inclusive) in the line of ascent through father, the line being traced upwards in each case from the person concerned, who is to be counted as the first generation.

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RADHE SHYAM AGARWAL

Founder and Chairman, Emami¹

Radhe Shyam Agarwal (almost always known as RS) had broken a bone in his foot which meant he had to work from his home in Kolkata. I arrived for the meeting to find that on that very day, he was having a family get-together to review all Emami’s businesses. Senior executives and family members were milling about waiting to do their presentations and I wondered how on earth I would be able to get his attention on such an important and busy day. And so it was when RS arrived, I learnt that he could only afford a short time that morning but suggested we meet instead for a relaxed lunch the following day. This was clearly going to be a better outcome and so I readily agreed.

The following day produced one of those beautiful November Kolkata mornings. RS welcomed me to his apartment wearing a white cotton kurta pyjama. His foot was clearly troubling him as he was using a walking frame to get about and when we settled down for the interview, he elevated his injured foot up onto a coffee table beside us. He was clearly in some discomfort during the meeting, but he never complained and was in full-flight espousing many of his philosophical views on life. I must say he reminded me somewhat of a younger version of AVS Raju of Nagarjuna Constructions. Behind RS was a picture window giving an excellent view of the surrounding suburbs.

As we started the interview, I was quickly to learn that the lives of RS and his partner and namesake, Radhe Shyam Goenka, are inextricably intertwined and that in many ways they are alter egos. They reminded me of the extraordinarily successful Australian business partnership between Franco Belgiorno-Nettis and Carlo Salteri, the founders of Transfield. In that case, however, whilst they brilliantly complemented each other in business, I do not believe they were particularly close in their private lives. RS and Goenka are on a completely different level where the closeness permeates every crevice of their lives. In fact, just shortly before completion of the book for publication, RS told me that Goenka and he had decided to both change their family names to ‘Emamiwala’!

RS was born on 18 February 1945 and RS Goenka one year and one day after him. And not only that, their wives too were born on the same day in the same year. And this doesn’t end here, as RS added, ‘Our first child is a girl and we each have two sons. While I was born in Bikaner [like BK Jhawar’s forebears] he was born in Churu in Rajasthan, but both of our parents moved to Kolkata from Rajasthan. We ended up in the same Hindi language medium school in the sixth grade and soon became friends. Following primary school, I went on to St. Xavier’s College [to which most of the Kolkata subjects of this book went] whereas RS Goenka went to another college. Our parents never became friends but for some reason we just clicked and we have met each other almost everyday since primary school.

‘My family was very wealthy by the time I was born as it had a successful business in Bikaner making dyes that was run by my four uncles.’ The way RS speaks at times might be seen by some as over-confidence, but I think he is just one of those rare individuals for whom everything is crystal clear and coming to a decision is a simple matter for him. He listens to the facts and ‘bang’ he has an answer or a view. At St. Xavier’s College, he was a good student always among the top three in his class. He was excellent at sport, captaining the school teams in cricket, football, and hockey. But he says he was no ‘goody goody’ and was quite rebellious.

But RS’ life was to dramatically change while he was still at school. ‘My father and one of my uncles speculated in silver bullion and lost a lot of money, and then they speculated on the Indian currency and had large holdings of one thousand rupee notes which were suddenly cancelled by the government. It was not an overnight collapse as my father tried to save the situation by selling everything off, including his properties and my mother’s jewellery. First went the building our family owned and lived in, and then we started a process over several years of moving to smaller and smaller rental properties.

‘Luckily for me, this happened towards the end of my school days so I did not notice it and, in any event, I had no understanding of the meaning of money at that point. The upshot was that my father never recovered the lost family fortune, and I was never able to forgive him for the sufferings he brought on my mother who constantly reminded us of our previous life with maidservants and lots of works of art. I was extremely close to my mother who always had great faith in me. She told me never borrow money from anyone, and never bow your head in front of anyone or else bad times will come.

‘The decline also hurt the family socially. My father’s explanation of what had happened to his wealth was to blame it on others who owed him money and never paid him back. Whilst this may have been true to some extent, the real reasons were the ones I mentioned earlier. So embittered did he become that he felt that the world seemed to reward dishonest people and that he, who in good times had helped many people, suddenly found they were not there to help him when he needed it. Our Marwari community indeed is very helpful in assisting budding young entrepreneurs get started, but it was not in a position to help someone like my father who had lost a large fortune. Above all, my father was ashamed and became a recluse and split from his brothers.

‘Actually, not every business of my father was lost. The one business he managed to salvage was Lalji, a general goods store that had belonged to my father’s family for 70 years. It still exists, and today it is one of the biggest shops in the wholesale market. But in those days, it was just a small shop and it was where I spent time working after I left school and while I was studying to become a chartered accountant. My father wondered why I did not immediately look for employment, but I felt my destiny was to be an entrepreneur if I was to restore the family name and fortune and, which I dearly wanted to do for my mother. I subsequently did my articles with S.R. Batliboi & Company, which at that time was the biggest firm in Calcutta and was associated with Ernst & Young.’

In 1971, not long after RS became a chartered accountant, he joined Birla Brothers where RS Goenka was already working. Goenka did not become a chartered accountant but along with RS studied for a bachelor’s degree in law and a master’s degree in commerce. When I asked what had made the two of them such good friends, RS replied, ‘God and destiny are the essence of such a good friendship, and the key is to treat the other as you would like to be treated. It is important in such a relationship to give and not seek. These principles have stood us in good stead over many years.

‘I got on extremely well with Goenka’s father, and he implored me to treat his son as a younger brother. Goenka had only had one younger brother so it was a very small family for that time and I think his father saw me as somewhat of a mentor to his elder son. His family was reasonably well off, and certainly in comparison to how my family ended up. His father had great personality and we all thought he was extremely good looking as, being quite fair, he looked like an Englishman. In fact, his father spent most of his time in the British business community as he worked as a broker for British businesses.

‘I got married in 1971 at the age of twenty-six, and in the same year, I joined Birla Brothers. Actually Goenka married seven years before me but, as I mentioned, we both had our first child in the same year. Mine was an arranged marriage. That did not mean that I had no choice at all, but I met one girl and that was final.

‘I joined Birla as the company secretary, responsible for all the company law issues. Subsequently, I became a vice president and started to look at financial issues and the strategy for growth. But my real chance came when Aditya Birla, who was running Birla Brothers at that time and who knew me from college, took over four companies and asked me to streamline the systems which I did quickly and successfully. This gave me an opportunity to work with him very closely and I became his blue eyed boy, analyzing potential takeover targets and how the existing businesses were performing. He was a brilliant entrepreneur. He not only had a chemical engineering degree from MIT, but he had fire and ambition oozing from within. Even though he was only one year older than I was, I learnt a lot from him and think he also learnt a little from me in the areas of my expertise.’ RS Goenka was meanwhile working for the K.K. Birla Group, streamlining their taxation systems.

‘In 1976, after five years of working for Birla Brothers, I submitted my resignation to Aditya Birla. He was shocked as he was about to appoint me as President of Industrial Plants Limited. I told him that I did not want to betray his confidence but service was not my objective and I wanted to start and grow my own business. By that time I had a car, a flat, and other facilities from the company and he asked me whether I was prepared to give all that up. I told him that this did not bother me and that I just wanted his blessing.’

I asked RS whether his wife had been worried that he was giving up such a good job. ‘Frankly, I did not ask her or any of my peers or seniors, other than, of course, RS Goenka with whom I had discussed everything as we were going to strike out together. That is why I told you that I am a rebellious and aggressive man and if I decide that I want to do something, I will simply do it. Goenka has a far more calm personality than me, and that is one of the reasons why I suspect we get on so well. We are perfect foils for each other.’

RS then told me an interesting story about what happened on leaving Birla Brothers. ‘Aditya Birla called me up and said, even if I was leaving them, he was so happy with my performance that he wanted me to come to the office once a week where I would find I still had an office and secretary and that he would keep paying me my weekly salary. I think he actually hoped that if my attempts to be an entrepreneur failed, I would come back to Birlas. And so I would go each week to the office and collect the cheques for my salary but would never encash them. About a year later, he called me up and said, What are you doing? Have you become idle? You are not even depositing your cheques. I told him I could not accept his money to which he replied, But I ordered you to. These are my instructions. Now please deposit the cheques and come and meet me tomorrow. When I went to his office the next day, he was with a few of his friends and told them what I had done and said, Would you all behave like this? This boy will do very well because of his self respect.’ Even before RS and Goenka left Birlas, they had decided on getting into cosmetics. ‘We chose cosmetics as a start-up because it is a business with minimum risk of losses. I was always toying with the idea of finding a business where the losses would be at a minimum, and the upfront requirements for sales would also be at a minimum. We both researched books on cosmetics and created some of our own formulations.

‘We started Kemco Chemicals in 1974 with a capital of 20,000 rupees and opened a small office of some 100 square feet. The brand name for our products from the very beginning was Emami. I do not remember exactly where the name came from but I think there was an unrelated product we found with the brand name Amami. Goenka and I were clear it was to be a 50-50 partnership.

‘Those were difficult days in Calcutta due to the Communist government and unions. But we have always had very good relations with our workers. Today we have around 20,000 people working for Emami and have never lost a single day due to a strike or lockout.

‘Our business expanded quickly. In four years, we were number two in creams, after Ponds’ well-known Vanishing Cream. And in cold creams we were number two or three. So we were almost immediately rubbing shoulders with all the big multinationals. They were definitely surprised by our success given that our prices were often higher that theirs. We then took over two companies – Himani and Boroplus – in 1978 and 1984 respectively. Boroplus Antiseptic Cream has over the years become a household name.’

I asked RS what the balance was between RS Goenka and himself, which made their relationship so successful. ‘That is pretty simple,’ he said ‘I am primarily responsible for planning and the creation of ideas and Goenkaji is responsible for execution and implementation. There has never been any overlapping, there has never been any contradiction, and there has never been any confusion. I do sometimes get into too much detail; but not in matters of routine. However, whenever either of us finds a problem, we sit together to find a solution or make the final decision. You cannot completely compartmentalize our work and say that this is your part of the job and this is my part, and that is why I said primarily responsible. I do not think any partnership or any relationship works that way.

‘Too much structuring of any relationship can destroy the quality of that relationship. It is not good to be too logical or too rational, because the rationale and the logic may change with the passing of time – after maybe six or seven years, things may change. In my opinion that is also why many couples decide to separate or divorce. After twenty or thirty years, a wife may say I never knew that you would be like this or the husband may similarly say I never knew that you were like that. They have not tried to understand each other properly over the years. But if you try and put yourself in the shoes of the other, then you will see the whole picture. But if there is no love for each other, then your mind has no peace and that brings discomfort. And with discomfort comes stress, which leads to dispersion of energy and in turn you lose wisdom. Totally perplexed, we try and find fault in each other. Instead of accepting things as they are, we expect the other party to accept our desires and failings, but we do not do the same for them. Once we do that, we lose happiness and if that happens, then you lose touch with divinity too.

‘I have several ways to determine whether a person is or should be happy or unhappy. In my opinion, to live a happy life one needs to care and put time into one’s family, health, business, and also one’s spiritual needs. If any of these pillars is weak, then the building of happiness is at risk.’

Wanting to know more about the friendship between RS and Goenka, I started by suggesting that in the West, we say that you should not do business with friends, but I was interrupted, ‘The West does not know the meaning of friendship. Friendship is a matter of what we call sambandh in Hindi, which means equal relations – equal bondage to each other. There is usually no equal bondage in the West. The beautiful English word of intercourse to me implies not only a physical relationship but an emotional one as well. I believe between a husband and wife one can talk about intercourse, whereas between a man and a prostitute it is only physical and the English word of intercourse should not be used. Please forgive me for using such an example, but my intention is to try and explain that sambandh means a very deep kind of friendship. If one can do business with a complete stranger, how can one not do business with a friend?’

I asked RS whether the friendship between him and Goenka has continued into the next generation. ‘Yes. Our children are also very close which you would have seen yesterday when everyone was here for the family meeting. Even Goenka’s grandson is a friend of my grandson. You know, all this depends on how you maintain good relations and how selfish or careful you are. We think it is also a matter of being just. With the next generation, if you start from the principle that I will look after my son and Goenkaji will look after his son, then you are going to have problems as far as the relationship is concerned. So it is important not to differentiate between his and my children.

‘Emami is therefore run like a large joint family business. Maybe we both will change our family names to Emami. The only possible problem with that is somebody said that the name Emami sounds like a Muslim name, which might cause offence.

‘Nor do we have problems when our children marry. We have a forum consisting of members from both the families to discuss this. All the daughters-in-law, as well as our daughters, regularly meet to discuss problems and they also do this with their husbands. We also have a system where nobody can, for example, buy jewellery just for themselves. We give a limit to each and every member of the two families and everyone has to go by these rules. We have created a family constitution as well as a business constitution and it is the same constitution for both the families. Everyone is treated as part of one family. Also, if any member of the two families wants to do something independently, then we have allowed some freedom for that too.

RS’s two sons, Aditya and Harsh, and his daughter, Priti Sureka, are on the board of Emami and RS Goenka’s younger brother and his son Mohan are also on the Board. His other son Manish and his nephew Prashant are part of the key management team. All six of the next generation are aged between thirty-five and forty.

‘Goenkaji and I are planning to retire within the next two years. We are forming a committee to manage the retirement, as nobody knows what the future holds, including of course for how long they will live. We are still making certain there are very strong guidelines for those who take over the company. Some of these guidelines are recommendatory and others obligatory. There are also sanctions if one strays, but one cannot be expelled from the family against their will. If anyone wants to leave, they have the option to sell all or a part of their shareholding, but only to other family members, not to outsiders. Up till now, nobody has left and I am not expecting anyone to leave any time soon.

‘There have been some tough times in the past. And, as for debt, it is as I told you it was my mother’s wish that I should never take on any debt. But we have started to learn how debt can be used in a wise and conservative way and we do need such debt if we wish to grow bigger.’

And then RS said something