Rebroadcast: How a U.S. Marine and an Afghan interpreter forged a bond of friendship in Afghanistan

Sign up for the On Point newsletter here. 

This rebroadcast originally aired on August 15, 2022.

Zac Zaki was an interpreter for the United States Marines in Afghanistan. The memories of bloody battle are still with him:

“Sounds like whistling by your ear and the minefield that you’re walking through on it. You lost your friend, your partners,” he says. “You saw the pieces of people’s bodies.”

Tom Schueman was his commander.

“We were headed towards the village and Zac was monitoring the radio. And he could hear what the Taliban were saying and they said, ‘We’re going to start the ambush in just a minute.’ But we were in a minefield,” Schueman says.

Today, On Point: Zac Zaki and Tom Schueman join us to talk about the friendship they forged in Afghanistan, and what it took to get Zaki out of Kabul.

Guests

Zainullah “Zac” Zaki, former interpreter with the Third Battalion, Fifth Marines during the war in Afghanistan. Co-author of Always Faithful: A Story of the War in Afghanistan, the Fall of Kabul, and the Unshakable Bond Between a Marine and an Interpreter. (@ZainullahhZaki)

Major Tom Schueman, active duty Marine. Co-author of Always Faithful: A Story of the War in Afghanistan, the Fall of Kabul, and the Unshakable Bond Between a Marine and an Interpreter. (@t_schue)

Show Transcript

MEGHNA CHAKRABARTI: One year ago today, Kabul fell to the Taliban. It marked the chaotic end to 20 years of war and American occupation of Afghanistan, the longest war the United States has ever fought. Zainullah Zaki. He goes by Zac for short. He and Tom Schueman formed a lasting friendship over 16 months of the deadliest fighting of that entire war.

Zac was an Afghan interpreter for the U.S. military. Tom, a platoon commander with the third Battalion, fifth Marines. Together, they’ve just published a new book. It’s called Always Faithful. And Zac joins us today from San Antonio, Texas. Zainullah Zaki, welcome to On Point.

ZAC ZAKI: Thanks for having me.

CHAKRABARTI: And Major Tom Schueman with us from Chicago, Illinois. Major Schueman, welcome to you.

TOM SCHUEMAN: Thank you.

CHAKRABARTI: Tom, can you first tell us the story of the first time you and Zac actually met each other in Afghanistan?

SCHUEMAN: Sure. It was October, beginning of October 2010. We were headed out on a patrol. Up to that point, I’d had a few other interpreters. Most of them were quitting because of how dangerous it was in Afghanistan at the time. And the only ones who were left usually either didn’t speak English, or didn’t speak the local dialect of Pashto.

So right off the bat I saw Zac. Healthy, young, fit guy who clearly had a solid command of English and knew the local dialect. And so we immediately connected just based on his competency or proficiency at being a translator. That was kind of the initial connection there. I was just happy to have someone who would go out on patrol, could interpret. And I wouldn’t have to worry about him becoming a liability. So that was the initial impression.

CHAKRABARTI: And what were the conditions like in the location you were deployed to at the time? In terms of the intensity of the fighting, or the number of times you needed