TURN THAT CLOWN UPSIDE DOWN
Joaquin Phoenix is pretty sure Empire hates him. We don’t. “It’s okay, man, it’s okay,” he says. “You hate me.”
We’re 30 minutes into our interview about Joker, and there’s been little direct Joker talk. “I don’t know how to talk about this movie, man!” he says. He hates talking shop at the best of times, but the experience of making Joker has so profoundly affected him that he doesn’t want to ruin it with anything approaching explanation. Dressed in black here by the pool at Los Angeles’ A-list hideaway the Chateau Marmont, he enthuses forever about working with Joker’s writer-director Todd Phillips, but you want to know how he feels about his character? Good luck.
“Am I the worst that you’ve ever had to deal with?” he asks. “You’re like, ‘Oh God, he doesn’t give you anything, and then when he does it’s just worthless?’” We didn’t say that. He laughs. “Do you understand, I’m not wanting to give you a hard time or anything… Come on, man! You came such a long way. It breaks my heart.”
“YOU HATE ME. YOU HATE ME.”
He explains why sitting down to pick this apart is so tough. “My connection with Todd and what we were uncovering in this movie is something really special to me,” he says. “Lucky for you,” he continues sarcastically, “you’re the first” — he hasn’t done any prior press for the film — “and so I haven’t figured out yet how to let go of my personal feelings. Because it feels like talking about a romantic relationship with somebody. An intimate relationship. We were just together all the time.” Phillips, who we meet the next day, is similarly affected by what’s gone on. From day one, this has been very, very special. IT’S JUNE, AND in the Los Angeles editing suite where Phillips is overseeing post-production, the film sits on a sofa facing many monitors, all displaying the image. The Joker — or at least the man who becomes him — surrounds us. He’s engulfed Phillips for three years.
