This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Happy Mother’s Day Monday, ALBC babies. To celebrate the occasion, we unlocked a Patreon episode starring none other than Sarah’s mom. We talk a lot about culty villains on this podcast, but we always want to highlight the heroes, too…and Ellen Shapiro is an embodiment of what it looks like to heroically love someone through—and out of—a cult journey. She joins us in this very special installment of the show to talk about what it was like to witness Sarah’s initial NXIVM days, and what happened when the going got whistleblowing levels of rough. She’s also a seeker and a licensed therapist who isn’t afraid to let her professional opinions fly: Like what she always thought was slimy about Keith Raniere’s shtick, and why she still has nothing but empathy for Nancy Salzman. There will be tears and laughs in this one. Enjoy: And don’t forget to call your Mama.   Also…let it be known that: The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.   Check out our lovely sponsors Join ‘A Little Bit Culty’ on Patreon Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag Support the pod and smash this link Cult awareness and recovery resources Watch Sarah’s TEDTalk   CREDITS:  Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames Production Partner: Citizens of Sound Producer: Will Retherford Writer & Co-Creator: Jess Tardy Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin