Last week, former UN ambassador and South Carolina governor Nikki Haley scored a coveted endorsement from Charles Koch’s political advocacy group. She’s passed Ron DeSantis in the polls—and now, she’s the top, non-Trump Republican candidate for president. But is there any hope of winning over Trump voters—or is this a race to be the candidate who steps in if the former president goes to jail?

Guest: Alexandra Ulmer, reporter at Reuters covering the 2024 U.S. presidential race, with a focus on Republicans, donors and AI.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Madeline Ducharme, Anna Phillips, Paige Osburn, and Rob Gunther.
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