We've reached an inflection point in security. There are a handful of organizations regularly and successfully stopping cyber attacks. Most companies haven't gotten there, however. What separates these two groups? Why does it seem like we're still failing as an industry, despite seeming to collectively have all the tools, intel, and budget we've asked for? Kelly Shortridge has studied this problem in depth. She has created tools (https://www.deciduous.app/), and written books (https://www.securitychaoseng.com/) to help the community approach security challenges in a more logical and structured way. We'll discuss what hasn't worked for infosec in the past, and what Kelly thinks might work as we go into the future. Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/esw-339