My guests this week are Elizabeth Zalman and Jerry Neumann. Jerry has been on this show two times before. He’s an early-stage Venture Capitalist, an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship, and an excellent writer. Liz is a two-time founder, most recently co-founding StrongDM, in which Jerry was a seed investor. Together, they have written a somewhat contentious book called "Founder vs Investor" that lays bare the relationship at the core of most new businesses. They take specific moments in a start-up’s life up to IPO and share their experiences on the friction that inevitably appears. In our conversation, we discuss the strong reaction to the book, the incentive problem at the root of the relationship, and explore best practices for other founders and VCs to follow. Please enjoy my conversation with Jerry Neumann and Liz Zalman.

Listen to Founders Podcast

For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here.

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Past guests include Tobi Lutke, Kevin Systrom, Mike Krieger, John Collison, Kat Cole, Marc Andreessen, Matthew Ball, Bill Gurley, Anu Hariharan, Ben Thompson, and many more.

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Show Notes:
(00:04:02) - (first question) - The controversy surrounding Founder vs Investor: The Honest Truth About Venture Capital from Startup to IPO 
(00:07:53) - Considering the idea of firing founders
(00:10:44) - Navigating morally grey areas for founders and investors
(00:11:57) - Understanding the role of the board and their power
(00:15:05) - A PSA for founders
(00:17:48) - Identifying where incentives are most broken
(00:22:28) - Viewing founder friendliness as a temporary status
(00:25:41) - Offering good advice during the fundraising process
(00:32:41) - Ensuring delivery on promises as an investor
(00:37:04) - Strategies for a long-term relationship between a founder and investor
(00:41:44) - Structuring the ideal board meeting tactically
(00:48:13) - Determining which investing terms matter most
(00:51:18) - Managing the dynamic between a founder and an investor during company growth
(00:56:44) - Establishing a sustainable, differentiated position
(00:59:08) - Defining the distinction between a founder and an investor
(01:00:18) - Reflecting on lessons from exiting a business
(01:03:52) - Exploring the VC-to-VC relationship
(01:08:01) - Plans following their book release
(01:11:34) - The kindest thing anyone has ever done for Elizabeth