In this conversation Josh interviews Zachary Levenson and Marcel Paret discussing their article on “The South African tradition of racial capitalism,” which serves as the introduction to a special issue of Ethnic and Racial Studies on the same subject. Zachary Levenson is an Assistant Professor of Sociology at Florida International University in the United States and a Senior Research Associate at the University of Johannesburg in South Africa. He is the author of Delivery as Dispossession: Land Occupation and Eviction in the Postapartheid City and a member of the Spectre editorial board. Marcel Paret is Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Utah and Senior Research Associate in the Center for Social Change at the University of Johannesburg. He is the author of Fractured Militancy: Precarious Resistance in South Africa After Racial Inclusion (Cornell University Press, 2022). Levenson and Paret situate the South African tradition of racial capitalism against the organizational backdrop of the anti-apartheid movement, and outline the key theses of this South African tradition of racial capitalism. They discuss how these activists, comrades, organic intellectuals and/or theorists within this tradition theorized the role of the state and capital in the development of racist policy, and the contradictions this created as well as the potential avenues of resistance it enabled.  And if you like the work that we do here at MAKC, this month we’re trying to reach a goal of adding 50 patrons to the show. We should be launching a new study group in the coming months as we are winding down with our Wretched of the Earth study group so keep your eye out for that too. You can stay informed on that and support the show by giving as little as $1 a month at patreon.com/millennialsarekillingcapitalism Links: Ethnic and Racial Studies Journal (the issue we discuss will be released in October) Fractured Militancy: Precarious Resistance in South Africa After Racial Inclusion Delivery as Dispossession: Land Occupation and Eviction in the Postapartheid City Spectre South African History Online