On episode 38, Charles begins by rebuffing a takeover attempt from a ghostly Luther Ray Abel. Afterwards, he talks to the novelist Lionel Shriver about immortality, the topic of her recent cover story at National Review. What are the personal and societal implications of immortality? What drives her to write about that topic? Does Lionel want to live forever herself? What would be her biggest fear if she could attain eternal life? Is she more bored than she was 15 years ago? What does she feel when she thinks about the size of the universe? Is Charles wrong to find it sad that, at some point soon, all his memories will be completely and permanently obliterated? Is there any point in living for a long time if you spend all your time extending your life and not much time living it?The dial-up tone in the introduction was recorded by lintphishx and is used under a CC 3.0 License.