Today, we are talking with Michael Dorf and Neil Buchanan. Michael is a Law Professor and Scholar of U.S. Constitutional Law who currently serves as the Robert S. Stevens Professor of Law at Cornell Law School. Neil is an Economist, Legal Scholar, and Professor currently working as a Professor of Law at University of Florida - Levin College of Law. Both are considered leading experts on the U.S. debt ceiling.

Tickets are officially live (and public!) for our event in Philadelphia on Thursday, August 3rd. Thanks to all the folks who bought tickets — we're on track to sell this baby out! Remember: Our goal is to sell out the venue, and then take Tangle on the road. Please come join us! Tickets here.

You can read today's podcast ⁠here⁠, and our latest video on the Trump indictment  here.

Today’s clickables: Intro: 00:00 Explaining the basics of the debt ceiling (02:13), Is the debt ceiling effective or even necessary? (05:27), The "least unconstitutional option" (12:04), Breaching the debt ceiling v default (16:40), The 14th Amendment argument: (25:46) Could are credit rating be downgraded again? (29:54), Should we end the debt ceiling? (33:56) Where you can find more from Michael and Neil (36:51)

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Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.

Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.

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