On this episode of Doomer Optimism, Twitter favorite Scratchy Johnson (@scratchyjohnson) sits down with the localism and applied complexity guru, Joe Norman (@normonics). Topics include: history, complexity, the role of the state, and localism. This is a real treat for fans of Joe, Scratchy, and localism.

About Scratchy Johnson
God, Family, Country. He's on Twitter. He's not hard to find.

About Joe Norman
Joe is a complex systems scientist researching risk in large-scale systems, pattern formation in biological systems, physiological patterns for improving human health, and military strategy for international and global security.