On this episode, Nate is joined by ecological economist and degrowth scholar Giorgos Kallis. He and Nate discuss the science and philosophy behind the degrowth movement and some of the challenges behind implementing such an enormous task. As a system precariously based on growth becomes more unstable, it is important to turn to those who specialize in ‘out-of-the-box’ thinking. This doesn’t necessarily mean we, as a society, are going to advocate or plan for degrowth - but postgrowth societies are on the horizon, and in many places are already here. Perhaps, the larger purpose of degrowth scholarship (and conversations like these) is to act as Overton Windows - to help people imagine and actualize behaviors and networks that will help us adjust in a post-growth world.  About Giorgos Kallis: Giorgos Kallis is an ecological economist and political ecologist working on environmental justice and limits to growth. He has a Bachelor's degree in chemistry and a Masters in environmental engineering from Imperial College, a PhD in environmental policy from the University of the Aegean, and a second Masters in economics from the Barcelona Graduate School of Economics. He has been an ICREA professor since 2010. Before coming to Barcelona, Giorgos was a Marie Curie International Fellow at the Energy and Resources group at the University of California-Berkeley. He has also written numerous books, including his latest, Limits: Why Malthus was Wrong and Why Environmentalists Should Care.  For Show Notes and More visit https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/52-giorgos-kallis To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/4VlVqw_BKdU