In this episode, Phil and Roy have a discussion with Jordan Russell of California Breeders Union. We get into Jordan's backstory, talk comparisons between aviculture and herpetoculture, define the distinction between preservation and conservation, explore some broader critiques of herpetoculture and where it can improve - and a whole lot more. Have a listen! And please like, subscribe, and share this episode, if you feel so inclined. To offer direct support to the show, please consider subscribing to our Patreon (https://patreon.com/projectherpetoculture) and have a look at our generous sponsors! SHOW NOTES: https://www.animalsathomenetwork.com/17-jordan-russell/ LINKS FROM THE EPISODE: California Breeders Union: https://www.californiabreedersunion.com Follow Jordan on Instagram: @californiabreedersunion Our Sponsors: CHECK OUT Custom Reptile Habitats CLICK HERE Cold Blooded Caffeine (apply the code ‘projectherp’ for 10% off): https://coldbloodedcaffeine.com/?ref=PH Tortoise Supply: https://www.tortoisesupply.com Reptile Rocks: https://www.superuro.com Redline Shipping: https://www.redlineshipping.com Support, Subscribe  & Follow: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/projectherpetoculture Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@projectherpetoculture4860 Follow P : H on Instagram: @projectherpetoculture Follow Phil on Instagram: @aridsonly Follow Roy on Instagram: @wellspringherp