Despite international criticism, asylum seekers and refugees have been labelled as ‘illegals’, and painted as threats to Australia’s security. On this very special Policy Forum Pod, we talk to Julian Burnside AO QC about why politicians seem to be so unwilling to engage in honest discussions about refugees, and what lessons we can draw from history to change public attitudes and refocus on the value of human rights.Pod presenters Sharon Bessell and Julia Ahrens also discuss Donald Trump’s support for Turkey, Germany’s plans to introduce higher taxes on flight tickets, and look at some of your comments and suggestions for future episodes of Policy Forum Pod.Julian Burnside is an Australian barrister. He is also a human rights and refugee advocate, and author. Julian stood as a candidate for the Greens in his local electorate of Kooyong in the 2019 federal election.Sharon Bessell is a Professor at Crawford School of Public Policy, where she is co-leader of the ANU Individual Deprivation Measure (IDM) team. The IDM is a new, gender-sensitive and multidimensional measure of poverty.Julia Ahrens is a presenter on Policy Forum Pod.Show notes | The following were referred to in this episode:Trump’s tweets on TurkeyGermany increases plane ticket pricesTampa affairUniversal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)Manus IslandLawless World: Making and Breaking Global Rules (book by Philippe Sands)East West Street (book by Philippe Sands) Shaun Hann’s on ‘man on Nauru’ Can science diplomacy with non-liberal countries be justified?Democracy Sausage podcast: The next generationPolicy Forum Pod is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Subscribe on Android or wherever you get your podcasts. We’d love to hear your feedback for this podcast series! Send in your questions, comments, or suggestions for future episodes to podcast@policyforum.net. You can also Tweet us @APPSPolicyForum or join us on the Facebook group. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.