In this episode, Matt and Sam are joined by political theorist and conservative intellectual Samuel Goldman—a very sensible and polite "enemy"—to discuss his brilliant new book, After Nationalism. Topics include: Goldman's punk-rocker past; the influence of Leo Strauss on his thinking; historical attempts to provide Americans with a coherent, enduring symbol of national identity; why these symbols have failed; what all this means for debates about teaching U.S. history; and what alternatives to nationalism its critics can offer.  Sources:Samuel Goldman, After Nationalism: Being American in an Age of Division (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2021)James Ceaser, Nature and History in American Political Development (Harvard University Press, 2008)