In this episode of the B-sides, Beverly interviews Jim about joy and creativity.  You can find Jim at jimdoran.art. If you'd like to be a part of his podcast, please fill out the Google form at jimdoran.art/podcast. To sign up for his patreon, please go to patreon.com/jimdoran. For detailed show note, please visit punkfrockers.com.If you like the Punk Frockers podcast, please consider subscribing to our Patreon at patreon.com/punkfrockers.